$300.00 oil change?
09-19-14, 05:21 PM
#16
Lead Lap
Excellent analysis! Your conclusions are also right on the money AFAIC, with the possible exception of the extended factory warranty. I consider paying for a pro-rata refundable extended FACTORY warranty makes good sense as both insurance against major malfunctions and as an essential aid to private sale (maximum value) of the vehicle. For those who will trade in the vehicle to a dealer, the option is much less compelling.
09-19-14, 05:38 PM
#17
Yup, trick is to buy it online the day before vehicle is 4 years old and/or at 49,999 miles on the odometer. Worst is paying full boat on day one, mile one and FINANCING the purchase to boot. OUCH!
09-19-14, 06:46 PM
#18
Lead Lap
I was just checking the ES maintenance schedule for the first 50,000 miles/5 years. During that time, the maintenance schedule calls for oil changes every year or 10,000 miles and tire rotations every 6 months or 5,000 miles. Other than that, everything else called for in the those 5 years or 50,000 miles fits into the category of "inspections", and during that time, there are no major fluid changes or servicing of vehicle components. Thus, I figure that, during that time, I'll spend about $200 for oil changes (at the Toyota dealer at about $50 per oil change), and I'll spend about $80 on tire rotations (which can, with no loss of tire tread life, be done at 10,000 mile intervals). I'm certainly capable of doing things like checking to see if the floor mats are properly positioned and checking remaining tread on the tires myself. And, the Toyota dealer, when they do the oil changes and tire rotations, routinely checks things like the brake pad wear, fluid levels, checks of steering and suspension components, etc. Thus, I figure that, during the first 5 years of ownership, I'll spend less than $300 on scheduled maintenance.
There is no question that, if dealers can sell car buyers things like maintenance packages and extended warranties, they can turn what would appear, at first, to be a "good deal" for the buyer into a great profit generator for the dealership. If the dealer can sell the customer maintenance plans, extended warranties, appearance protection packages, dealer installed options, nitrogen tire fills, etc., that dealership can sell the car for a price that is truly below its cost and still end up with one of the best sales, from a profit point of view, for the dealership.
There is no question that, if dealers can sell car buyers things like maintenance packages and extended warranties, they can turn what would appear, at first, to be a "good deal" for the buyer into a great profit generator for the dealership. If the dealer can sell the customer maintenance plans, extended warranties, appearance protection packages, dealer installed options, nitrogen tire fills, etc., that dealership can sell the car for a price that is truly below its cost and still end up with one of the best sales, from a profit point of view, for the dealership.
09-19-14, 08:20 PM
#19
Such "replacement" is suspect. What they ACTUALLY do is suck out the "old" fluid from the reservoir with a turkey baster, then refill it with new brake fluid. The extent to which this represent a "brake fluid replacement" is in the mind of the beholder. Note that the "old" fluid still occupies the brake lines, cylinders, pistons, etc. IOW, save your c-note!
Last edited by williakz; 09-19-14 at 08:57 PM.
09-20-14, 06:23 AM
#21
Lead Lap
Such "replacement" is suspect. What they ACTUALLY do is suck out the "old" fluid from the reservoir with a turkey baster, then refill it with new brake fluid. The extent to which this represent a "brake fluid replacement" is in the mind of the beholder. Note that the "old" fluid still occupies the brake lines, cylinders, pistons, etc. IOW, save your c-note!
09-20-14, 07:27 AM
#22
Lead Lap
I also know that, with my GX, I had intended to have the brake fluid replaced at the oil change around 35,000 miles, but, I didn't notice that changing the brake fluid didn't get put on the work order, and it was not done. The service adviser (at the Toyota dealership) told me that I could wait another hour and have it done or I could just wait until my next oil change, which is what I chose to do. At somewhere around 38,000 miles, the brake system started to become somewhat noisy, but, when I had the fluid changed at my oil change around 40,000 miles, the noise "magically" disappeared. Thus, I'm a believer that there is value in changing the brake fluid at intervals at least somewhat close to what the manufacturer recommends.
09-20-14, 10:37 AM
#23
At somewhere around 38,000 miles, the brake system started to become somewhat noisy, but, when I had the fluid changed at my oil change around 40,000 miles, the noise "magically" disappeared. Thus, I'm a believer that there is value in changing the brake fluid at intervals at least somewhat close to what the manufacturer recommends.
09-20-14, 11:28 AM
#24
Lead Lap
Care to expand on the nature of the "noisy brake system" and the relationship between the noise and the "old" brake fluid? Does the noise increase with the amount of moisture in the fluid? Is it caused by rust in the lines, cylinders, and/or pistons? Aren't the above stainless steel anyway? Help!!!
09-20-14, 11:58 AM
#25
Lead Lap
I'm not sure that I have the ability to expand or to explain better what was happening. Immediately after applying the brakes, I could hear a somewhat grinding sound that seemed to be saying "something needs better lubrication than it is getting", and immediately after the brake fluid was replaced, the brakes were, once again, completely silent. I went back and talked with the mechanic who changed the brake fluid, and I asked him if he had done anything else, like cleaning the rotors, making adjustments, etc., and he assured me that he had done nothing except for changing the brake fluid.
09-20-14, 12:05 PM
#26
Lead Lap
I have no idea what specific components were making the sound. All I know is that the sound was consistently there before the brake fluid was changed, and it disappeared completely immediately after the brake fluid was changed. And, again, the mechanic assured me that he did absolutely nothing except to change the brake fluid.
09-20-14, 12:52 PM
#28
Lead Lap
I probably haven't described the sound I was hearing very well, and my use of the word "grinding" to describe it probably wasn't the best choice of words. In any case, it wasn't my intention to hijack this thread, and I don't wish to do so any more than has already been done. The point of the earlier post was simply that, through the first 5 years of ownership of an ES, there should not be need to spend more than a few hundred dollars on regularly scheduled maintenance.
09-20-14, 02:13 PM
#29
Agree entirely with your conclusion regarding maintenance programs. The larger point is that one must apply rigor and logic to produce a meaningful analysis. You did so regarding the maintenance issue; you did not regarding the brake fluid replacement/noisy brake system issue. We live and we learn...
09-21-14, 11:10 AM
#30
I'm not sure that I have the ability to expand or to explain better what was happening. Immediately after applying the brakes, I could hear a somewhat grinding sound that seemed to be saying "something needs better lubrication than it is getting", and immediately after the brake fluid was replaced, the brakes were, once again, completely silent. I went back and talked with the mechanic who changed the brake fluid, and I asked him if he had done anything else, like cleaning the rotors, making adjustments, etc., and he assured me that he had done nothing except for changing the brake fluid.