krava

Right now I have a lexus GS 300 2006 AWD. I bought that car in 2009 for 1/2 of MSRP from a non lexus dealer and autocheck reported frame damage at auction but I didn't look at it and someone from the acura website found it for me after I put the deposit on it. Anyway it had 38,000 miles on it and I have gotten it up to 162,000 miles now. I have only had 1 repair on it and that was a rear differential leak (which could have been because I never did alignments on it). I have changed the oil ever 5000 miles changed the breaks once and never done any other service to it at all. All those cars have issues with the carbon build up in them. I got mine done at 145,000 miles so it suppose to be like a new engine. My question now comes as I want to use that car as my back up car and looking for a new one. With the gas prices the way they are and the amount of miles I get on the cars (I usually drive them to the ground, I don't need to switch out every few years). I was leaning toward an ES 300h probably a 2013 model but it does lose trunk space but I don't think too much trunk space. I am not sure how much quicker the v6 is over it. Another choice would be an Avalon or Avalon hybrid. The problem is I probably can't get financed and have to pay no more then $28K cash. And right now I need to wait another two years probably in order to get around that price range unless I get financed. But in your opinon for what I am going to use the car for and how much I drive does it make since to get a non hybrid? I am also scared that the battery will go out and that is another $3-$5K those batteries can't last forever right? and if I have to replace the batteries that will kill the amount of money I saved on gas and then I have been driving around a slow car when I could have had speed. Anyone want to give me some advice will appreciate it.
After reading about that guy getting a loaner es350 and not liking it, what about an older model LS460?

jachim1

I came from ls460 downgrade it my car to es300h thinking i will save on fuel ha what a mistake unless you drive like old lady with feather foot you will get around 35mpg otherwise i you wanna drive like on your previous car gs300 your fuel economy will be around 27mpg with no power whatsoever.car is loud uncomfortable cheaply made except design i like the design and the battery question no one can tell you how long will last ,buy yourself used ls460 and you'll be happy. Good luck

atoyota

The traction battery is a non-issue. The battery Toyota and Lexus use is the same tired and true battery system they've been using on Prius since 1997, There are many Prius owners who have over 300K on their cars and have no problems.

But I think those concerns are moot if you can't get financed and only have 28K. It sounds like your decision on an older car is driven more by finances than any technological or creature comfort criteria.

EDIT: I do want to add that there is nothing wrong with getting a used Lexus that fits your budget and circumstances.

LexBob2

I agree on both points...

wasjr

Bottom line given your finances, I would recommend you take a hard look at a low mileage 2011 or 12 ES350. It will use regular gas and (based on a couple of friends who have them) get 30+ mpg on hwy.

To your questions, we have the 13 ES300h and continually get 33-35 mpg in winter and 36-38 mpg when the weather warms up. When I am driving the car it tends to be on back roads or interstates and I drive it in normal or sport mode. On trips in normal mode at 75-80 mph i still get 36 mpg. In normal or sport mode I have no issues with quickness and acceleration.

As to batteries I agree with the above comments, plus there is an 8 yr/100,000 mi warranty. The batteries were my principle concern in selecting the 300h over the 350.

rustytank

I agree with atoyota as well. You won't find a 300h or 350 for $28k right now... And you won't find a LS for that budget either... Not a CPO at least...

I too was looking into an Avalon before purchasing ES350. From my experience after test driving Avalon, ES wins hands down. Its more quiet, comfortable, feels more luxurious, just more refined overall.
You can get more info here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...vs-avalon.html

300H and 350 are two very different cars IMO... They drive and feel very different. 350 definitely has alot more power and yet its very comfortable and easy to drive. Some say its too dull but i like to call it smooth and certainly don't mind being able to steer the car with my thumb. 300H has less power which takes some time getting used to specially if you're coming from a GS. It also has more sportier/stiffer suspension that can get quiet uncomfortable on bumpy surfaces but you might not mind this because GS has always been equipped with sportier suspension than the ES. The 300h also has the regenerative braking system which you can never come to a smooth complete stop. It always has that jerk at the end no matter how hard you try. Lastly, there are some people seem to mind the high-tech-ish whining noise when you come to a stop.

I wouldn't say ES is a noisy car. Its no LS by any means but ES is very quiet overall and very refined. However, from my experience of owning both cars, 300H and 350 are very different when it comes to cabin noise. Sound insulation is probably the same but 300h's sportier/stiffer suspension makes the the ride a lot bumpier which leads to more things to rattle inside the cabin like the seatbelts, dashboard, glove compartment, armrest storage, etc. Also, the impact and the sound of hitting potholes get transferred into the cabin where ES350 would absorb the impact and glide through the road imperfections. I'm in NYC where i can say with confidence that the roads here are probably the worst in the country so these difference are pretty dramatic. But on smooth surfaces 300h is just as smooth and quiet as 350 but handles better. Which leads me to wonder why Lexus would make better handling on a car that has less power...?

Hope this helps.

krava

ride quality is important and also trunk space so now I am going to be on the fence between a GS and ES. I don't think I want to go the LS route because of repairs, looks like I need to wait 2 more years or so and get a 3-4 year old used 2013 read about the MKZ people like it but bad resell. I am not trying to resell but doesn't make since to buy it new when I get get a few year old one 1/2 off and be done with it.

don1

I have the 2014 ES 300h and coming from a 2010 Acura TL the ride seems smooth and soft. I have tested previous generations of the ES and this current model is sportier but far from sporty. Regarding the trunk I haven't found the 300h to be a problem but have yet to take it on a long trip where a lot of luggage is needed.

riknchar

You could probably find a very nice Certified Pre-Owned LS460 in your price range if you don't mind driving a car that's a few years old. Lexus can Certify any of their cars back to the 2008 model year (as long as they are in perfect condition and have less than 70K miles).

I own a 2008 LS600hL (the Hybrid/Long version) that I just purchased CPO from the local Lexus dealer. Talk about one amazing ride! While the car originally stickered for $115K, I got it for $42K with a full 3-year warranty.

It's currently in the shop getting a TSB done (for free, part of the CPO warranty) and I'm driving a brand new 2014 ES300H loaner (2500 miles on odometer). I can honestly say that there is zero chance I'd swap my '08 LS for the '14 ES if given the chance. I know I'm posting on an ES forum, and I really don't want to knock the ES300h, but the ride difference between the two cars is jarring! If I had never driven the LS, I probably would have LOVED the ES--it is fairly quiet, modern, and fuel efficient. But the LS600 is a world above (even a 6-year old one).

Just my 2 cents... And again, I think the ES300h is a pretty incredible car--it's just that the LS will spoil you to the point that nothing else comes close. Of course (as I'm sure some one will point out), I would expect a $115K car to be way nicer than a $45K car. But in order to get the price to compare, you have to be willing to accept a used/CPO car, which I know is a no-go for many people...

Amphibulus

ricknchar, can you tell me how is the fuel economy on a hybrid LS?

riknchar

I'm averaging between 22-23 MPG with a mix of in-town and highway driving.

Keep in mind the LS600hL's hybrid system was not intended for stellar fuel economy; the purpose was to give the car the power of comparable V-12s from Mercedes or BMW by leveraging established hybrid technology and the stellar 5.0 Liter Lexus engine. Between the engine and electric motor, the car is conservatively rated at 440 hp, all pushing a car weighing over 5000 lbs. With that in mind, my 22-23 mpg is actually pretty amazing.

The car is sneaky fast and silent as a tomb at all speeds--drive one and you'll be ruined for anything else from then on...

lesz

I find it interesting that Lexus chose to take a similar approach with the GS450h and with the RX450h, but with the ES300h, instead of mating the hybrid technology with the 3.5 liter V6 used in the ES350, they chose to use the smaller and less powerful 2.5 liter 4 cylinder internal combustion engine. I'm not sure whether they felt that typical ES hybrid buyers would value the better fuel economy available with the smaller internal combustion engine more than the power that would have been available with the V6 or whether they felt that the price premium that would have been required to use the V6 would have pushed the ES hybrid price beyond an acceptable price level for the ES market segment. As an ES buyer, I chose the power and refinement of the V6 over the fuel economy of the hybrid, but, had Lexus chosen to make a more powerful ES450h by using the 3.5 liter V6 in the hybrid, I would have found the extra horsepower, even with fuel economy somewhere between that of the ES 350 and that of the ES300h, to be quite appealing, even if it came at a price point higher than that of the ES300h.

Mike728

I would somewhat agree with this. My only concern would be with having all that power at just the front wheels.

Arty101

Lexus probably decided if a buyer wanted more power with the hybrid system, they wanted you to upgrade to the GS or LS hybrid. Otherwise, it would be a crowded field.

lesz

Then, how about an AWD ES 450h?

Actually, I might be more concerned about having too much horsepower all at the back wheels on a RWD vehicle, especially on wet or slick pavement. And the Lexus RX450h seems to be able to safely handle the extra horsepower with front wheel drive and with a much higher center of gravity and less nimble overall design than the ES.

I can remember back to the early 80s after the first oil shortage crisis when auto manufacturers were drastically cutting horsepower in an attempt to increase fuel efficiency. At that time, typical sedans had 140-150 hp, and "high performance" sports cars might have had a whopping 175-200 hp. Then, a decade later, when technology advanced to the point where the manufacturers were able to increase horsepower and still maintain better fuel efficiency, I remember people expressing safety concerns about putting 200 hp in an SUV with a high center of gravity or putting 200 hp in sedan. Yet, today, we have front wheel drive vehicles, SUVs, etc. with well over 300 horsepower, and with improvements in vehicle handling and safety technology, I'm confident in guessing that front wheel drive vehicles can and will be able to handle continuing increasing amounts of horsepower.