Go Back   Club Lexus Forums > Lexus Model Forums > ES Models > ES350 and ES300h (2013+)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

Dealer option "The Protector"

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-14-14, 05:25 PM   #31
lesz
Lead Lap
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexBob2 View Post
If The Protector is a sealant, I wonder if the dealership reapplies it every 6 months or so? For $1,000 it might be better to have a detailer do the car periodically. There always is the chance that a dealership might sign on with another brand of packaging.
I think that using the term paint sealant can be a bit confusing. The clear coat applied as a part of the factory finish is, in essence, a permanent paint sealant. Waxes and wax-like products provide additional short-term paint sealant qualities.

Vehicle finishes are now so much better than they were a few decades ago, and the clear coats on today's vehicles actually do, not only give the finish beauty and depth, but they also do provide excellent long-term protection to the vehicle's finish. You can get a good indication of how well the clear coat protects the paint by visiting your dealer's used car lot and looking at vehicles that are 5 or 6 years old. With a couple of hours spent by the dealership's detailer, he/she can take a 5 or 6 year old vehicle whose owner has never applied a coat of wax to it and can, with the proper polishing compound, make the finish look like the vehicle has just come off of the assembly line. That is the because the effects on a finish that has been neglected for years are generally confined to the surface of the clear coat, and polishing off that surface will remove such evidence of neglect.

The short-term protection provided by waxes does just that. It gives some measure of additional short-term protection to the paint.

While I understand that, sometimes, family harmony can be more important than $1000, and I can understand the decision made by the OP, but, as I stated earlier in the thread, I can't imagine that what the Protector does for the vehicle has any advantages over periodic waxing and detailing, whether done by the owner or by a professional, and I would be surprised if the fine print in the warranty isn't such that it allows the warranty to cover virtually nothing.
This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Club Lexus!

Last edited by lesz; 05-14-14 at 05:39 PM..
lesz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 06:21 AM   #32
PTmobile
Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesz View Post
I'll add a couple of other thoughts to those in my earlier post.

The reality is that modern clear coat finishes require minimal maintenance to keep them looking good, and the same is true for leather interiors. The value of the protection plan offered by the dealership might be a different story if they could guarantee that you were never going to get door dings or hail damage or stone nicks and if they could guarantee that a bird was never going to crap on your vehicle, but, obviously, they can't guarantee things like that.

In most markets, you can find a full service car wash or other independent shop that will offer detailing service for around $125-150. If you are not interested in doing work to maintain the appearance of your vehicle yourself, that vehicle appearance would be better served by keeping the money that you would spend on the dealer's appearance protection package in your pocket and having the car detailed once a year.

Also, my guess is that, if, when you were negotiating the deal on your car, you had told the dealership that you didn't want their appearance protection plan for $1000, but you would take it for, say $150, they would have agreed to give it to you for that price if it made the difference between them selling you a car or not selling you a car, and that would be a good indication of just how big the mark-up is on product. Over my years of buying vehicles, I've had numerous experiences where the dealership has tried to sell me overpriced dealer add-ons that had already been put on the vehicle, and, when I've said that I definitely would not be interested in buying a vehicle with those options, the norm has been that they have sold me the vehicle with the add-ons with no additional charge for those add-ons, which is also further indication of just how little it costs the dealership to put those add-ons on the vehicle.
Although I agree with some of what you said one thing really stuck out to me that I couldn't disagree with more. Today's paints and clear coats actually are very soft due to all the environmental regulations (Japan's being the strictest in the world) so the paint swirls and damages VERY easily. The are all water based now so that certain VOCs are not gassing off curing the curing process. In turn the paint may look great but wiping it down with a simple microfiber can swirl the paint. Sure the dealer's protector package is just a sealant that will not prevent the damage they state... but the mark up in the product is what covers the "warranty" work. All you have to do is scroll through this forum and there are countless threads on how bad the paint is and how people are dealing with rock chips. The only sure way to prevent that is a clear bra... which is a great product but typically you will want to get that through an independent installer so you are not paying the dealers markup. Also it prevents the headlights from oxidizing... which will occur once the headlight lenses begin to chip and pit.

Last edited by PTmobile; 05-16-14 at 06:25 AM..
PTmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 07:26 AM   #33
lesz
Lead Lap
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTmobile View Post
Although I agree with some of what you said one thing really stuck out to me that I couldn't disagree with more. Today's paints and clear coats actually are very soft due to all the environmental regulations (Japan's being the strictest in the world) so the paint swirls and damages VERY easily. The are all water based now so that certain VOCs are not gassing off curing the curing process. In turn the paint may look great but wiping it down with a simple microfiber can swirl the paint. .
I've read that a number of times on various internet forum threads, but it is contrary to my own experience with numerous vehicles.

While there is no question that it is very easy to put swirls in the paint finishes, what I've found is that those finishes are amazingly resilient, and, with the high quality compounds available in today's market, those swirls can be easily cleaned up. Regardless of whether the finishes are "soft", the clear coat does its job quite well, and it is what gives you the ability to clean up the swirls and surface scratches. I'll also note that, regardless of whether or not the finishes are softer, one factor that makes swirls more apparent than they would have been even a couple of decades ago is that today's finishes have so much more depth to them. That depth, while it makes for a beautiful finish, also makes any imperfections, such as swirls, more apparent, and that is especially true with the very dark colors. Again, though, the good news is that those swirls and surface scratches can be cleaned up very easily. As I said in a previous post, I've seen cars whose finishes have been neglected for years, and, with a couple of hours with the dealer's detailer, are put on the used car lot with a finish that looks like it just came out of the factory.

With regard to stone chips, I see very little difference in susceptibility to them in today's vehicles than what I saw 20 years ago. If anything, the I see fewer stone chips on the front of cars now, primarily, perhaps, because much of the front of many vehicles is made from the bumper cover-like material that seems to be a little better at "giving" a bit without chipping or denting.

Thus, regardless of what I've seen some say in internet threads about today's finishes not being as good as those in the past, my own experience makes me believe that it just is not the case, and that is especially true because many of those claims that I've read seem to come from people who are selling various products and treatments that claim to be able to offer protection to the vehicle's finish.
lesz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 11:51 AM   #34
Arty101
Lexus Test Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
Arty101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesz View Post
I've read that a number of times on various internet forum threads, but it is contrary to my own experience with numerous vehicles.

While there is no question that it is very easy to put swirls in the paint finishes, what I've found is that those finishes are amazingly resilient, and, with the high quality compounds available in today's market, those swirls can be easily cleaned up. Regardless of whether the finishes are "soft", the clear coat does its job quite well, and it is what gives you the ability to clean up the swirls and surface scratches. I'll also note that, regardless of whether or not the finishes are softer, one factor that makes swirls more apparent than they would have been even a couple of decades ago is that today's finishes have so much more depth to them. That depth, while it makes for a beautiful finish, also makes any imperfections, such as swirls, more apparent, and that is especially true with the very dark colors. Again, though, the good news is that those swirls and surface scratches can be cleaned up very easily. As I said in a previous post, I've seen cars whose finishes have been neglected for years, and, with a couple of hours with the dealer's detailer, are put on the used car lot with a finish that looks like it just came out of the factory.

With regard to stone chips, I see very little difference in susceptibility to them in today's vehicles than what I saw 20 years ago. If anything, the I see fewer stone chips on the front of cars now, primarily, perhaps, because much of the front of many vehicles is made from the bumper cover-like material that seems to be a little better at "giving" a bit without chipping or denting.

Thus, regardless of what I've seen some say in internet threads about today's finishes not being as good as those in the past, my own experience makes me believe that it just is not the case, and that is especially true because many of those claims that I've read seem to come from people who are selling various products and treatments that claim to be able to offer protection to the vehicle's finish.
I can't comment on the durability of the clear coat, although I personally think it needs a good sealant nonetheless. My buddy thinks that the clear coat is so durable that he doesn't wax nor seal it other than a weekly wash. I try to wax my car once a year cause I'm a bit lazy .

I have to disagree on the front end getting fewer stone chips "because much of the front of many vehicles is made from the bumper cover-like material that seems to be a little better at "giving" a bit without chipping or denting." I think the paint is the same for the hood as the rest of the car, but there "may" be less stone chips due to the design and aerodynamics of the newer cars. That said, just this past week I was behind a small truck on the freeway and a big (it sounded pretty big) rock flew and hit me on front end. I'm glad I have the 3M clear bra cause I saw the potential damage (it pitted the plastic) it may have caused on the hood. The installer also told me the clear plastic he installed over my headlights also prevents oxidation of the clear lens that most cars experience after a few years.
Arty101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 02:04 PM   #35
lesz
Lead Lap
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty101 View Post

I have to disagree on the front end getting fewer stone chips "because much of the front of many vehicles is made from the bumper cover-like material that seems to be a little better at "giving" a bit without chipping or denting." I think the paint is the same for the hood as the rest of the car, .
I'm not saying that the paint of the bumper cover-like material is any different from the paint on the rest of the vehicle, but the softer bumper cover-like material seems to be better able to flex a bit with the impact of a stone or other small object without causing a stone ding in the paint or a dent in the material, itself. I know that, on my GX, there are panels of that same material on the bottom half of all of the doors. Just a couple of weeks, the GX was the victim of someone carelessly opening a door into its door in a parking lot. The result was a nasty scuff and a couple of light scratches on that soft bottom panel of the door. With the right polishing compound and a small random orbit buffer, I was able to take both the scuff and the scratches out of the panel in a few minutes. I know that, had the panel that was struck been sheet metal, at a minimum, I would have had an ugly door ding, and I likely would also have had some paint chipped off. Also, I live out on the country and much of my driving is on gravel roads, and, with my ES, which I've now had for just under a year, I'm yet to get my first paint chip on the nose of the vehicle (knock on wood). With other vehicles that I've had with more sheet metal on the nose of the vehicles, I've never gone this long without getting multiple stone nicks on the front of the vehicle. Again, I believe that the softer material is able to flex a bit with the impact of a small object, and that flexing makes it less likely to dent or chip than if it were sheet metal.

I really like seeing liberal use of that bumper cover-like material in vulnerable areas of the car. On the ES, for example, the bumper cover actually extends several inches above the grill and fills the space between the grill and the front edge of the hood. While I like the look of the GS hood, which extends down to the grill, those few inches above the grill are an especially vulnerable area to stone dings, and I'm pleased that the ES doesn't have sheet metal in that space. Similarly, I'm happy to see how the back bumper cover wraps around the sides of the car and makes up the lower half of the rear quarter panels behind the rear wheel wells and also the way that the front bumper cover wraps around the sides of the car and becomes the lower portion of the front fenders in front of the front wheel wells.

Last edited by lesz; 05-16-14 at 02:25 PM..
lesz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 02:49 PM   #36
Arty101
Lexus Test Driver
Trader Score: (0)
 
Arty101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,391
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesz View Post
I'm not saying that the paint of the bumper cover-like material is any different from the paint on the rest of the vehicle, but the softer bumper cover-like material seems to be better able to flex a bit with the impact of a stone or other small object without causing a stone ding in the paint or a dent in the material, itself. I know that, on my GX, there are panels of that same material on the bottom half of all of the doors. Just a couple of weeks, the GX was the victim of someone carelessly opening a door into its door in a parking lot. The result was a nasty scuff and a couple of light scratches on that soft bottom panel of the door. With the right polishing compound and a small random orbit buffer, I was able to take both the scuff and the scratches out of the panel in a few minutes. I know that, had the panel that was struck been sheet metal, at a minimum, I would have had an ugly door ding, and I likely would also have had some paint chipped off. Also, I live out on the country and much of my driving is on gravel roads, and, with my ES, which I've now had for just under a year, I'm yet to get my first paint chip on the nose of the vehicle (knock on wood). With other vehicles that I've had with more sheet metal on the nose of the vehicles, I've never gone this long without getting multiple stone nicks on the front of the vehicle. Again, I believe that the softer material is able to flex a bit with the impact of a small object, and that flexing makes it less likely to dent or chip than if it were sheet metal.

I really like seeing liberal use of that bumper cover-like material in vulnerable areas of the car. On the ES, for example, the bumper cover actually extends several inches above the grill and fills the space between the grill and the front edge of the hood. While I like the look of the GS hood, which extends down to the grill, those few inches above the grill are an especially vulnerable area to stone dings, and I'm pleased that the ES doesn't have sheet metal in that space. Similarly, I'm happy to see how the back bumper cover wraps around the sides of the car and makes up the lower half of the rear quarter panels behind the rear wheel wells and also the way that the front bumper cover wraps around the sides of the car and becomes the lower portion of the front fenders in front of the front wheel wells.
I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the whole front end, including the hood. I agree, the bumper, and on the side panels of some cars including my old RX and your GX, are made of the softer urethane material that can resist chips, nicks and even bumps. They even resist bumps by some careless drivers or their passenger. I also wouldn't doubt the paint on the urethane material is different than the paint on sheet metal and probably is more flexible.

BTW, traveling on a gravel road in of itself shouldn't be an issue, unless you're behind another vehicle. That's where you have a big chance to have gravel or rock kick up from behind and and hit your front end, hood or windshield. Be glad you have the urethane bumper and panels.
Arty101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 03:33 PM   #37
lesz
Lead Lap
Trader Score: (0)
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty101 View Post

BTW, traveling on a gravel road in of itself shouldn't be an issue, unless you're behind another vehicle. That's where you have a big chance to have gravel or rock kick up from behind and and hit your front end, hood or windshield. Be glad you have the urethane bumper and panels.
While other vehicles kicking up stones is a significant source of stone dings, especially on the hood and nose of the vehicle, another significant source of those stone dings is actually gravel that is kicked up by your own tires. When the front wheels are turned, gravel that is kicked up by them can often be thrown past the protection of the fenders and ding the sides of the vehicle. And your own front wheels can even put dings on the nose and hood of your vehicle because gravel that is temporarily stuck in the tire treads can then be thrown forward ahead of the vehicle, bounce off the pavement, and, then, strike the front of your own vehicle. As someone who has done lots of driving on gravel roads, I've had this happen a many times, and, when it does, it almost seems worse to know that your own vehicle caused damage to itself. Actually, I'd say that, over the years, my vehicles, on gravel roads, have gotten more stone dings from stones kicked up by the vehicles themselves than they have from stones kicked up by other vehicles, and that is because I've learned to be careful about making sure that I don't follow other vehicles too closely.

Last edited by lesz; 05-16-14 at 03:49 PM..
lesz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-14, 03:33 PM
 
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"The Protector" dealer offer gappell Automotive Care & Detailing 6 05-26-14 09:58 PM
Rust Protection on new car IS3Fguy Automotive Care & Detailing 1 05-08-14 08:14 AM
Lexus Warranty scsok920 Car Chat 18 04-19-13 01:45 PM
How to protect the hood? cloud11244 RX - Third Generation 17 08-22-12 04:51 PM
LS400 w/ Cloth top and chrome fenders Horta LS400 14 03-08-05 06:12 PM


Tags
add, auto, cost, dealer, dealers, find, install, interior, lexus, ons, paint, plan, protection, protector, the, worth

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:37 AM.

Join ClubLexus
Advertising


Copyright © 2000-2008 Internet Brands, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Privacy Policy | Disclaimer | Terms of Use | JOBS


Get all contact info