brittmayo

Quite a few people have commented that there are better choices than the fully-loaded ES300h for $50,000 (e.g., it's "not a $50,000 car"). I'm just curious: what would people consider a much better car for an MSRP of $50,000 (to eliminate the "I wouldn't PAY $50,000 for it" line of discussion). Or what would you pay more than $50,000 for that gave you more bang for your buck (e.g., something with an MSRP of $55,000 that's a much better value in your opinion).

Not wanting to start a firestorm or a kerfuffle - just curious about others' thinking on this subject.

Thanks.

amphipri0n

Generally when someone uses the term $X thousand car, this usually means the base price for the car starts at X thousand brand new. The ES officially starts at around $37k, I'd say it makes more sense to say that the ES is a $40k car.

Given that, I feel what I paid at the time bought the ES (which retailed at around $49,500 before the 9% CA sales tax) was a good value (about 10% off). Though my two car brands are Lexus and BMW, the only other car I was seriously considering last time around was the GS. If you like the styling and the sportier engine noise and ride, I think the GS, (especially with the added tech in 2014 that was lacking in '13 such as the 8 speed transmission in the RWD, rear cross traffic alert, power trunk, etc...) is a good value to put $55-$60k worth of coin into.

Edit: I've seen this before, but wanted to add: http://wot.motortrend.com/rear-drive...ic-410075.html lists improved intake and exhaust sound, so they may have quieted the engine noise that was being piped into the cabin

SW17LS

That's the first I've read about any exhaust or intake changes, and the parts seem to be the same. My guess is MT is wrong. I don't find the sound creator objectionable, and I came from the ES. If one does you can always delete it.

As for the ES, to me there are different quality levels you get to when you get into higher price levels. I owned two ESs, and it's a great $40k car...$43k...$45k. But, if I'm going to buy a $50,000 car, you're getting closer to a GS or a 5 Series, or an E Class even. I'd rather have a lightly optioned mid level car than a fully loaded entry level ES for $50k.

For that money I'd want a RWD powertrain, a dedicated platform, better interior appointments, etc.

ElliotB

Just curious, where have you seen quite a few people post this?

IMHO, I don't think there is a better overall value, when it comes to safety, reliability, and overall economy (total cost of ownership including resale value) than the ES. And the free food at my Lexus dealership is pretty good too! And they give a pretty good free car wash! And don't forget that it is one of a few select vehicles that gets 40mpg+! Not a bad total package!

brittmayo

In reading through Club Lexus prior to purchasing mine.

ElliotB

Brittmayo, there have been a couple of posts of this type, but not quite a few. More importantly, what do you think?

brittmayo

Since I just bought one, I agree with your assessment. And I do remember seeing quite a few such posts; however, I'll admit to having reached the point in life where my memory sometimes isn't what I remember it having once been.

Poppa

I'm have to agree with this statment as well... I never in my life thought I'd even look at, much less contemplate actually buying a 45K car... And yet that is exactly what I did.... and I wouldn't have purchased this one if the dealership hadn't come off the sticker a reasonable amount... car listed for 45,186.00 and I paid 39,186.00 That's not much more than the Toyota Avalon, which is what I had originally set out to buy... but the Lexus had a lot more on it plus the 4 yr / 50K warranty bested Toytoa's 3 yr / 36. But I'll tell you if Lexus hadn't come down at least 5 grand off the car ( actually came down 6K and gave me the best trade in offer for my old Avalon ) I would probably be driving a new Avalon right now... but that's just me.

Poppa

Lexusxoxo

I disagree.. I have owned a 5 Series and a E Class pretty well loaded and I wouldn't trade my fully loaded ES for one.
The 5 Series was soooooo much better in 2007. I test drove a 2014 5 Series before I bought my ES and couldn't believe how much it had changed.. And not for the better..
My E Class was in the shop more than I drove it. I also had a S Class that was a lemon and thank goodness Mercedes bought it back..
My ES 300h had a sticker of $51+ of coarse I didn't pay near that price for mine.
I could have bought a cheaper version but I love all the bells and whistles.
This is my 4th Lexus and I have never ever regretted any of my Lexus purchases.
And resale on all my Lexus's have been great! I expect this one I have now will also have a good resale value seeing that a fully loaded UL 300h are very hard to get now.. It's a win win for me!

lesz

Actually, Toyota dealers should have quite a bit more room to discount the Avalon than Lexus dealers have to discount the ES because the markup from invoice to MSRP for an Avalon is quite a bit larger than is the markup from invoice to MSRP for the ES. While the markups are close on the base vehicle, the markup for options on the Avalon is 3-4 times as large as it is for options on the ES. On a typically and similarly equipped ES and Avalon, the Toyota dealer has about $2000-3000 more room to work with under MSRP on the Avalon than does the Lexus dealer on the ES.

That said, in the $40,000 to $50,000 MSRP range, I have a hard time finding a vehicle that has more appeal or that offers more for the money than does the ES.

LexBob2

I'd probably lean this way too once at or past the $50k mark. I'm not sure what I'd look at but IMO that $50k+ threshold opens things up to several different choices. You can't beat the ES in the $40-$48k range.

SW17LS

Reliability is one thing, but from a quality and driving dynamic perspective an E or 5 is heads and shoulders above an ES. It should be, for the price. Its a difference between a car built to a $50k starting standard vs a $36k starting standard. $50k doesn't get the bells and whistles in one of them vs an ES, but the car itself is more car...

If you're going to lease a car (and 70%+ of people lease these cars)...reliability is less of a concern.

Yep, we're on the same page.

Some of this too is just that cars overall have gotten better (better options), and more expensive. Its hard for me to even wrap my head around a $50k ES when my loaded 2003 ES was $39k...and my 2010 ES not quite loaded was $41,500...and a UL was $44k.

Lexusxoxo

Don't forget the 50k UL ES today is a hybrid. 2010 ES was not a hybrid..

SW17LS

I understand that. The hybrid has no value to me though...

jonmanch

I lease my cars, and reliability is very important. I have test driven both the BMW 3 and 5 Series and the E350. At $50K or close to it, they do not come with much of anything as far as options are concerned, and they are substantially more with the options most people want, and they are much more expensive to lease, let alone purchase. AN example of options, I like the back up camera. None of the last 3 Series I drove have a backup camera as an option. I had to move up to a 5 series. A Mazda 3 has a backup camera (not knocking Mazda). Come on.

I used to own three Infiniti G-Series sedans fully loaded. When I would take my car in for service and get a loaner, it would be a new G but much more modestly appointed, and I missed all of my bells and whistles, even for a day or two.

$50K might get you to that next level, but you are going to pay a lot extra to be satisfied.