2013 ES 350 seat/upholstery issue
#91
This is what Lexus agreed to replace....driver's back only. They would not even address under the leg/knee area. My premium package was one down from top of the line....so what ever leather that was. As a reminder....this is after 5K miles.
#92
Lead Lap
Take a look at the damage on my new 2014 ES 300h driver's seat.
1300 miles by the way. No seat extender.
Used Meguiar's Leather protector once after taking delivery.
http://t.co/NjupUBJCAR
1300 miles by the way. No seat extender.
Used Meguiar's Leather protector once after taking delivery.
http://t.co/NjupUBJCAR
Also, for the problem that others in the thread have been concerned with, I'm not sure any connection between the problem and the seat heaters has been established beyond the level of speculation as possibly being related.
#95
Lead Lap
That said, while I don't completely dismiss that there is a problem with the padding failing or deteriorating, I'm skeptical as to whether that is the cause of the problem. It would appear that there are gaps in padding to allow space for the seat ventilation, and it seems that the indentations in the seats are the result of the leather changing shape and conforming more than it should to those ventilation gaps in the padding. If the padding were somehow breaking down, I would expect to see the indentations where there is padding, not where there are gaps in the padding. I might think that there is some sort of issue related to poor design, but, if that were the case, I would think that, with all of the ES vehicles on the road and with all of the people on this board, we would be seeing more than a handful of people reporting the problem.
I wish that I could still look at the seats in the older ES that I no longer own and see if there is anything different in the design and padding placement of its ventilated seats from that of the seats in the current generation ES. It would also be interesting to know whether ventilated seats on other current generation Lexus models seem to have the same padding design/placement as does the ES.
It would also be interesting to know whether the vehicles that are showing the problem all came off of the same production run.
In any case, on the vehicles that do have the problem, it seems to me, again, that something is causing the leather to conform more than it should to the ventilation gaps in the padding. Perhaps, it is heat from the seat heaters. Perhaps, it is some product that has been used to condition the leather, and, perhaps, it is something else. At this point, I don't dismiss any of those possibilities, but I'm not convinced with certainty that any of them is the cause, either.
#96
Lexus Champion
Only difference between the seats is the material. No reported problems with the Nuluxe or highend leather? I am sure others have the problem but are told by Lexus that it is normal
P.S. I've seen the same on AMG Mercedes ventilated seats.
P.S. I've seen the same on AMG Mercedes ventilated seats.
#97
Lead Lap
Further, there have to be differences in seat construction between the standard leather and the semi-aniline leather seats because the semi-aniline leather seats have the thigh support extension.
Also, with regard to the NuLuxe, I'm not sure that the absence of reports of problems so far is meaningful because, with the 2013 ES, ventilated seats with the perforated NuLuxe were not available. And, even with the 2014 ES, those with the ventilated NuLuxe are, I'm sure, only a small percentage of all ES vehicles sold. With the small number of reports of the problem and with the very small number of 2014 ventilated NuLuxe seat vehicles on the road so far, it is much less likely that we would have heard reports of any problems that might exist with them than it would be for the more numerous vehicles with leather seats.
At this point, we are still talking about a sample size of 6 or 7 people who have reported a problem. With that tiny sample size, it would be both foolish and misleading to come to any conclusions about how widespread the problem is or about which seat material is likely to be affected or not affected.
Last edited by lesz; 05-10-14 at 12:30 PM.
#98
[QUOTE=lesz;8529742
At this point, we are still talking about a sample size of 6 or 7 people who have reported a problem. With that tiny sample size, it would be both foolish and misleading to come to any conclusions about how widespread the problem is or about which seat material is likely to be affected or not affected.[/QUOTE]
Go on e-bay and view used 2013 ES350's & you will see a high % of seats looking the same as mine/ours. You are putting way more thought into the issue than the folks at Lexus. It IS a design problem with the sub-construction of the seat....and the cavalier attitude from Lexus is unacceptable. I will find a solution....I might remind you, Lexus knows how to manufacture seats because the seats in the GS, LS are fine. We agree the perforated leather is not the problem, but what is behind.....a fan housing or large vent ports.....who knows....we do agree it looks like crap.
At this point, we are still talking about a sample size of 6 or 7 people who have reported a problem. With that tiny sample size, it would be both foolish and misleading to come to any conclusions about how widespread the problem is or about which seat material is likely to be affected or not affected.[/QUOTE]
Go on e-bay and view used 2013 ES350's & you will see a high % of seats looking the same as mine/ours. You are putting way more thought into the issue than the folks at Lexus. It IS a design problem with the sub-construction of the seat....and the cavalier attitude from Lexus is unacceptable. I will find a solution....I might remind you, Lexus knows how to manufacture seats because the seats in the GS, LS are fine. We agree the perforated leather is not the problem, but what is behind.....a fan housing or large vent ports.....who knows....we do agree it looks like crap.
#99
Lead Lap
I should also add that I know, as a photographer, that pictures taken with a flash or other strong artificial lighting are going to create shadows that make imperfections, like the seat indentations, look deeper than they actually are or how they would look in natural light.
I have no question that there are some who have real issues with the seats on their vehicles, but I'm far from being convinced that it is a problem that is apparent in more than a relatively small minority of vehicles, and the pictures in the EBay ads certainly don't help to make the case that the problem is a universal one. I'm sure that you can pick and choose to find examples of vehicles with the problem, but it certainly is not apparent in the pictures of most of the vehicles being sold on EBay.
I'd also suggest that trying to make the case to Lexus that there is a universal problem and using pictures of vehicles with normal seat wear to make the case is only helping Lexus to make the case that there is no problem. Instead of doing that, the focus should be on the smaller number of vehicles with seats that clearly show that there is a real problem beyond normal wear.
#100
Lexus Champion
I just spent about 15 minutes doing what you asked/suggested. In the several dozen EBay listings for 2013 ES vehicles that I checked, I'm certainly not seeing what you are suggesting that I would see. In the pictures of the front seats of the vehicles, I see the majority of them looking like brand new. I see a good number of them showing what I would think of as varying stages of normal wear, and I see a few that look like they have had heavy wear, but what I don't see are ones where the seat bottoms show the clear indentations that are shown in the pictures posted by a couple of people in this thread.
I should also add that I know, as a photographer, that pictures taken with a flash or other strong artificial lighting are going to create shadows that make imperfections, like the seat indentations, look deeper than they actually are or how they would look in natural light.
I have no question that there are some who have real issues with the seats on their vehicles, but I'm far from being convinced that it is a problem that is apparent in more than a relatively small minority of vehicles, and the pictures in the EBay ads certainly don't help to make the case that the problem is a universal one. I'm sure that you can pick and choose to find examples of vehicles with the problem, but it certainly is not apparent in the pictures of most of the vehicles being sold on EBay.
I'd also suggest that trying to make the case to Lexus that there is a universal problem and using pictures of vehicles with normal seat wear to make the case is only helping Lexus to make the case that there is no problem. Instead of doing that, the focus should be on the smaller number of vehicles with seats that clearly show that there is a real problem beyond normal wear.
I should also add that I know, as a photographer, that pictures taken with a flash or other strong artificial lighting are going to create shadows that make imperfections, like the seat indentations, look deeper than they actually are or how they would look in natural light.
I have no question that there are some who have real issues with the seats on their vehicles, but I'm far from being convinced that it is a problem that is apparent in more than a relatively small minority of vehicles, and the pictures in the EBay ads certainly don't help to make the case that the problem is a universal one. I'm sure that you can pick and choose to find examples of vehicles with the problem, but it certainly is not apparent in the pictures of most of the vehicles being sold on EBay.
I'd also suggest that trying to make the case to Lexus that there is a universal problem and using pictures of vehicles with normal seat wear to make the case is only helping Lexus to make the case that there is no problem. Instead of doing that, the focus should be on the smaller number of vehicles with seats that clearly show that there is a real problem beyond normal wear.
#101
lesz....first example that clearly shows the back of the driver's seat....scroll down to the middle of the listing to see close-up pictures of the interior and you will see that I'm talking about. No trick photography
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-ES-REARVIEW-CAM-2013-LEXUS-ES350-PREMIUM-SUNROOF-NAV-CLIMATE-SEATS-14K-TEXAS-DIRECT-AUTO-/371057531422?forcerrptr=true&hash=item5664c09a1e&item=371057531422&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-ES-REARVIEW-CAM-2013-LEXUS-ES350-PREMIUM-SUNROOF-NAV-CLIMATE-SEATS-14K-TEXAS-DIRECT-AUTO-/371057531422?forcerrptr=true&hash=item5664c09a1e&item=371057531422&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
#102
It bothered me enough experiencing the toyota like quality of my ES that Lexus traded keys for a 2014 GS F-Sport. My cost was simply cost difference in the two cars with the original 10% discount....I essentially drove the ES 8,500 miles for a year and a half free. I will say there is no comparison between these cars other than similar looks. Some times you have to move on.
#103
It bothered me enough experiencing the toyota like quality of my ES that Lexus traded keys for a 2014 GS F-Sport. My cost was simply cost difference in the two cars with the original 10% discount....I essentially drove the ES 8,500 miles for a year and a half free. I will say there is no comparison between these cars other than similar looks. Some times you have to move on.
It's a gorgeous car!
#104
Lexus Champion
It bothered me enough experiencing the toyota like quality of my ES that Lexus traded keys for a 2014 GS F-Sport. My cost was simply cost difference in the two cars with the original 10% discount....I essentially drove the ES 8,500 miles for a year and a half free. I will say there is no comparison between these cars other than similar looks. Some times you have to move on.
#105
Lexus Champion
It bothered me enough experiencing the toyota like quality of my ES that Lexus traded keys for a 2014 GS F-Sport. My cost was simply cost difference in the two cars with the original 10% discount....I essentially drove the ES 8,500 miles for a year and a half free. I will say there is no comparison between these cars other than similar looks. Some times you have to move on.