Mike728

Except, you owned the previous generation ES, or ES's. The ones based on the old Camry chassis. I can say with experience, the old gen ES does not ride the same as the new gen. Not even close, as several reviewers have also mentioned (for better or worse).

You also mention that the Azera, Cadenza, Lacross, MKZ, Avalon and (Genesis?) are close competitors. The Korean's have come a long way, but no where near the refinement and quality of Lexus. The MKZ is tiny. The MKS would be a closer comparison. I drove one for a week and if you like a 70's Caddy type of floaty ride, it may be for you. The Avalon is the only vehicle that comes close, but you sacrifice refinement for tacky, as far as the interior goes. And, unless I'm missing something, the Genesis is RWD and competes more with the GS.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread get more off topic. I think a mod should move all this off topic stuff into Tom's original thread. --> HERE

TomMartin

Sorry...I thought it might be interesting to get "drive and handling" comments from 2013 ES owners who really LIKED their ES...I guess it did turn the thread away from OPs original intent...Tom

SW17LS

Actually I drove probably 7 different 2013 ESs at length back to back with my 2010 ES, I thought they drove very similarly. I never bought into the whole idea that the 2013 rode "worse" than the 2010, I always said that if you closed your eyes you'd be hard pressed to tell which car you were in. Biggest difference with the 2013 is the lighter electric steering.

The Avalon chassis is the Camry chassis, its just stretched. The differences are not that great.

I agree that they are not quite as refined as the ES, but they are pretty damn close. My point was this is a segment that when I bought my 2003 ES there were *no* competitors, the ES was it. Now its not that way any more.

Actually, the MKZ is bigger than the ES. Its 2 inches longer, 2 inches wider, and the wheelbase is an inch longer. The MKZ is also a far better vehicle than the MKS, which is also significantly pricier than the ES. They're all similarly sized and priced vehicles and someone is going to cross-shop them. The Genesis is RWD, but its priced like the ES not the GS, the fact that its RWD is a plus.

I'd agree.

Mike728

Hopefully, my last off topic post in this thread.

This shocks me. A friend of mine has a 2013 Fusion and I sat in an MKZ at the Auto Show. Both cars feel and look smaller to me. I stand corrected.

SW17LS

Its the low greenhouse and the swoopy styling...the Fusion is SLIGHTLY smaller, its about 2 inches shorter than the MKZ, and about an inch narrower (WB is of course the same since its essentially the same car).

But, the MKZ is larger in every metric but rear legroom than the ES, outside and front inside leg, shoulder, head, hip room are all larger. Rear legroom is 3 inches better on the ES.

One of the interesting things about this segment is despite the competition, the ES is still selling really well. Means theres a lot of new buyers to the segment in general, because all of these cars are selling well pretty much.

wasjr

We have the 300h and I enjoy driving the vehicle on back roads in either Normal or Sport mode. The Eco mode just does not have the same punch. My wife also notices that I handle curves faster in her 300h than in my MDX, and the MDX handles very well.

If I am driving my wife's 300h around town I leave it in Eco mode, but as soon as I hit the interstate on ramp I change to Normal.

jonmanch

I only drove in ECO mode once. The car is not responsive. I am almost always in Normal mode. Sport is nice but negative effect on mpg but sometimes it is worth it.

mikeys350

Just got back from a weekend trip to san francisco. Drove my wifes es350 down for its first long trip since purchasing it last Saturday. Very comfortable drive. Quiet, comfortable, averaged 26.9 mpg but most of the drive for us is freeway driving set at cruise control around 75-80 the whole way with a packed car full of people and bags. Love this car. It gets the spoiler put on tomorrow morning to complete the look.