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Why ES 350 over ES 300h?

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Old 09-11-13, 07:53 PM   #46
imz14u2nv
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Originally Posted by markwill12 View Post
(Full disclosure - I just bought an ES 300h about a month ago).

This may come across as a provocative question but it's not intended that way. I am honestly quite intrigued by this and would appreciate some perspective. I was overtaken by an ES 350 driver who seemed more intent on zigzagging in between lanes than me - I was focused on my MPG Anyway, this thrill seeker got me thinking...

Why do some folks elect to purchase the 350 over the 300h? As far as I am aware there are two obvious differences.
  • Performance. As I understand, the 350 is more powerful. But the ES doesn't strike me as a car that is focused on performance. I would assume that most folks who see the ES as a desirable car don't place a huge emphasis on power (for me, the ES 300h is plenty). I'm guessing the IS would be a more obvious choice for those who place a premium on power.
  • Cost. For a car in this price range, I'm assuming the extra $2,700 or so isn't a major issue (although certainly something to consider), given the very clear MPG benefit. I guess the balanced consideration of this point is that if the cost isn't a major issue, then the extra cost of running the car isn't a major factor either and the lower MPG may be just fine for many.

I understand there are some minor styling differences (use of bamboo in the ES 300h, for example) but assume these are not factors the majority of folks would prioritize overall.

Personally, I love the extra range and fuel efficiency of the car and - frankly - how darn quiet it is And, as I say, for my type of driving the power I can get from the ES 300h is more than enough.

So, I am genuinely interested to know what the attraction would be in the ES 350. I am hoping I can get some considered answers without any 350 vs. 300h flaming

Thanks.

Mark

PS: Never really understood why the less powerful car is the one with the spoiler
I donít want to offend anyone, but when you ask a question you have to be able to handle the responses, I can tell you that these are genuine reasons that influenced my decision:

1. I Really, Really, Really don't like the bamboo trim (Why is that the only option for the hybrid?), I prefer the Espresso Dark Bird's Eye Maple.

2. I could not live without the Panorama Glass Roof, I can from an 2007 ES350 Ultra Luxury and that was one of the main reasons I purchased that one (That and the Mark Levinson Audio).

3. I donít like the wheels on the ES300h, The 18" split 10-spoke alloy Wheels with Liquid Graphite Finish look so much better to me.

Of course these were my reasons, I understand everyone will make choices based on personal preferences.
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Old 09-11-13, 08:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by imz14u2nv View Post
I donít want to offend anyone, but when you ask a question you have to be able to handle the responses
I think everybody has done a great job of doing that in this thread...
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Old 09-11-13, 08:44 PM   #48
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To me, gas mileage doesn't really matter for me since I own a truck which gets 18-19 mpg on the highway. Plus isn't the 0-60 on the hybrid like 8 secs. I know your not buying the car for performance but my Tacoma V6 is faster than that.... Plus I don't like that CVT transmissions either.
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Old 09-12-13, 08:57 PM   #49
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Actually, 0-60 in 8 sec is pretty fast for a hybrid. Not too many are as fast. For that matter, there aren't too many hybrid are as nice and lux as the 300h (excluding those performance hybrids costing thousands more).
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Old 09-13-13, 01:08 AM   #50
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ES350>>>>>ES300h

The 2GR-FE is a GEM

The MPG difference isn't worth the extra cost. Not to mention the performance and refinement levels of the ES350 that are better.

And also the ES300h uses a CVT, no thank you!

Last edited by yowps3; 09-13-13 at 01:49 AM..
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Old 09-13-13, 01:24 AM   #51
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And on the HWY the ES350 can get really good FE. Very high 30s, if not 40mpg on the highway.

The ES300h is a very nice car, but once you try the ES350, it's just much better. The silky smooth V6 compliments the ES very well..
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Old 09-13-13, 06:53 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
And on the HWY the ES350 can get really good FE. Very high 30s, if not 40mpg on the highway.

The ES300h is a very nice car, but once you try the ES350, it's just much better. The silky smooth V6 compliments the ES very well..
Low 30's highway yes. Mid 30's maybe. 40 mpg highway????
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Old 09-13-13, 07:03 AM   #53
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My commute is 12.2 miles on "surface streets". The loaner ES350 reported 23 mpg. This morning the ES300h reported 42.2 mpg. That will drop in winter of course. For me it was a no brainer but that V6 is silky smooth for sure.

Shame there are not more people tracking on fuelly.com for the ES350. It shows around 24 mpg average for a tank which is what I would expect. We've all done trips where we got close to an amazing mpg but for an entire tank, that's the number I look for. At the moment, that's 600 miles before the light comes on. Drop that to around 380 miles for the V6 brother.

May be ES350 owners could post photos of their range to empty screen?
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Old 09-13-13, 07:12 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
ES350>>>>>ES300h

The 2GR-FE is a GEM

The MPG difference isn't worth the extra cost. Not to mention the performance and refinement levels of the ES350 that are better.

And also the ES300h uses a CVT, no thank you!
The drivetrain in the ES350 is nice. Even though it's been on the road in Lexus for 7, going on 8 model years, it's performance and fuel efficiency is still competitive.

Offering the hybrid was a no brainer in terms of offering choices to Lexus buyers and sales reinforce that choice is good.
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Old 09-13-13, 07:40 AM   #55
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[QUOTE=CurryPot;8138456

May be ES350 owners could post photos of their range to empty screen?[/QUOTE]

The "miles until empty" photo below was taken after I had driven about 50 miles after a fill-up with my ES350. I've also attached a "mpg after fill-up" photo. As I said in a previous post, my typical and consistent mpg (computed by dividing actual miles driven by actual gallons of fuel) has been between 32 and 33 mpg. My driving is rarely done in stop-and-go conditions. Still, considering the size and weight of the car, the hp that the engine produces, etc., I can't complain about the mileage I'm getting with the ES350. With the kind of driving that I do, had I bought the ES300h, I would likely be saving well under $200 on fuel per year. For me, that savings can't justify either the price premium I would have had to pay for the hybrid or the diminished performance of the hybrid. If I were driving in different conditions, buying the hybrid might well have made more sense.
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Old 09-13-13, 08:36 AM   #56
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As a ES300h owner I feel compelled to stand up for the other ES300h owners here on the forum.

As far as accerlation goes I am very satisfied with it, in fact Autoweek had this to say:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...iews/120539984
The ES hybrid gives the driver electric assist exactly when it's needed and transitions between modes as unobtrusively as anything we've ever driven. The four-cylinder engine note is still present, but when accelerating from moderate speeds, the hybrid is actually more satisfying than the gasoline ES350 thanks to a kick of torque from the electric motor at the point where a non boosted powertrain would be downshifting.

Motortrend said this:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...0h_first_test/
Though we might not have predicted as much going into this review, after driving both ES models back-to-back it's the hybrid ES 300h that comes off as the far more appealing car. It's not as quick as the V-6 -- the run to 60 mph takes a leisurely 7.6 seconds -- but in around-town driving its instant-torque electric motors and seamless CVT make it feel livelier (despite the hybrid weighing 161 pounds more than the ES 350). A silly feature, standard on both cars, dubbed Drive Mode Select allows the driver to choose eco, normal, or sport settings to alter the response of the throttle and power steering assist. In the ES 350, you'd be hard-pressed to notice much difference between any of the three, but in the ES 300h the sport setting really juices-up the throttle; the car fairly leaps away from stoplights.
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Old 09-13-13, 08:39 AM   #57
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We went in and looked at both the 350 and 300h, with the expectation of getting the 350. In fact I was hesitant about a hybrid, but learning that Toyota has been using this technology for a number of years, and with the 8yr /100k mi warranty I was comfortable. My wife usually drives a car for 6-8 years and with the relatively small differential in price I believe we will see the payback (I am an **** financial guy and don't know of any other hybrid that has a reasonable payback period, given the price premium.). I am tracking mileage on Fuelly and so far for 8,000 miles she is getting 39.7 mpg in mostly city driving. The four 2013 350s being tracked on Fuelly are averaging 24 mpg for a combined 19,000 mi. Using those figures for an estimate, our savings will be around $700 per year with the 300h. If the vehicle was principally used on interstate/highway driving I know it would be a tough payback.

Additionally (again personal preference), I like the wheels of the 300h better than the options on the 350, like the bamboo (a not so typical interior color), and like the looks of the 300h with the spoiler. We have no issue with power, although we do use the Normal mode on the interstates for acceleration.

I guess this is also why there are so many flavors of ice cream.
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Old 09-13-13, 08:44 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jollick View Post
Motortrend said this:
.....A silly feature, standard on both cars, dubbed Drive Mode Select allows the driver to choose eco, normal, or sport settings to alter the response of the throttle and power steering assist. In the ES 350, you'd be hard-pressed to notice much difference between any of the three, but in the ES 300h the sport setting really juices-up the throttle; the car fairly leaps away from stoplights.
I find it interesting that the reviewer mentioned that it is difficult to detect differences in the drive mode on an ES350. The difference between ECO and SPORT is like night and day to me. The steering stiffness and acceleration are markedly different between the two sides of the spectrum. I have to say that this is one of the only cars I've driven where the drive mode selector actually made a noticeable difference.
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Old 09-13-13, 09:56 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jollick View Post
As a ES300h owner I feel compelled to stand up for the other ES300h owners here on the forum.

As far as accerlation goes I am very satisfied with it, in fact Autoweek had this to say:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...iews/120539984
The ES hybrid gives the driver electric assist exactly when it's needed and transitions between modes as unobtrusively as anything we've ever driven. The four-cylinder engine note is still present, but when accelerating from moderate speeds, the hybrid is actually more satisfying than the gasoline ES350 thanks to a kick of torque from the electric motor at the point where a non boosted powertrain would be downshifting.

Motortrend said this:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...0h_first_test/
Though we might not have predicted as much going into this review, after driving both ES models back-to-back it's the hybrid ES 300h that comes off as the far more appealing car. It's not as quick as the V-6 -- the run to 60 mph takes a leisurely 7.6 seconds -- but in around-town driving its instant-torque electric motors and seamless CVT make it feel livelier (despite the hybrid weighing 161 pounds more than the ES 350). A silly feature, standard on both cars, dubbed Drive Mode Select allows the driver to choose eco, normal, or sport settings to alter the response of the throttle and power steering assist. In the ES 350, you'd be hard-pressed to notice much difference between any of the three, but in the ES 300h the sport setting really juices-up the throttle; the car fairly leaps away from stoplights.
That's because the ES300h has a CVT, all CVTs do that, they don't downshift!!! If the ES300h had 6-speed it would've also downshifted. The ES350 is as lazy as it gets, you never even need to get it to 2000rpm, it pulls strongly below 2000rpm and when you want to have fun just floor it and it doesn't break sweat. It's defiantly quieter, smoother and overall more relaxed than the es300h from experience, especially this new ES350, even better than the previous one, despite same engine.
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Old 09-13-13, 11:06 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesz View Post
The "miles until empty" photo below was taken after I had driven about 50 miles after a fill-up with my ES350. I've also attached a "mpg after fill-up" photo. As I said in a previous post, my typical and consistent mpg (computed by dividing actual miles driven by actual gallons of fuel) has been between 32 and 33 mpg. My driving is rarely done in stop-and-go conditions. Still, considering the size and weight of the car, the hp that the engine produces, etc., I can't complain about the mileage I'm getting with the ES350. With the kind of driving that I do, had I bought the ES300h, I would likely be saving well under $200 on fuel per year. For me, that savings can't justify either the price premium I would have had to pay for the hybrid or the diminished performance of the hybrid. If I were driving in different conditions, buying the hybrid might well have made more sense.
I agree, for you ES350 makes sense. Thanks for posting the screen. Of course if you were in Europe where cars are taxed on CO2 emissions.....

ES300h: 0.49 lb per mile
ES350: 0.79 lb per mile
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Old 09-13-13, 11:06 AM
 
 
 
 
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