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Why ES 350 over ES 300h?

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Old 08-19-13, 01:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by IS350atWOT View Post
The 300h has no more horsepower in sport mode than it does in eco mode.

Pedal to the medal should be the same in all 3 modes.
Much more torque in Sport, I would like to see someone with the proper instruments make that comparison. Perhaps even a 0 to 30 mph comparison of each mode.
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Old 08-19-13, 02:29 PM   #32
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I dumped an A4 Audi for my 2013 ES350.....so, 4 cylinder & CVT transmission over ruled even the possibility of a test ride in the 300h. I may have liked it if given an opportunity but the Audi experience was so horrible I doubt I could have convinced myself. I'm getting 26mpg all day long and 32-34 highway. I only have to lightly touch the accelerator, I enjoy sport mode at times, pretty much everything about this car is satisfying. The V6 is small by American standards but the 350 has no problem keeping up with their V8 counter-parts. I might also add, I have not seen negative reviews on the 300h, so don't let my Audi experience influence your decision, just my reason for choosing the 350 over the 300.
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Old 08-19-13, 03:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jollick View Post
Much more torque in Sport, I would like to see someone with the proper instruments make that comparison. Perhaps even a 0 to 30 mph comparison of each mode.
It would be interesting to see the numbers but probably difficult to find a test using the different modes in each car. I guess you could say if there is any improvement in acceleration in sport mode, both cars would benefit about the same and the V6 would still be quicker by the same %.
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Old 08-19-13, 07:05 PM   #34
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Easy... we hate big oil, we want to leave a decent planet for our kids, I love silently passing people in parking lots and they look in amazement, 45.7 MPG in San Antonio, did I mention it's quiet??
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Old 08-19-13, 09:12 PM   #35
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Once I became accustomed to getting 40 mpg and going 600-700 miles on a tank of gas with my 2011 Lincoln MKZ I felt that going back to a gasoline only engine was a regression. I chose the ES300h because of the fuel economy and quietness combined with the luxury....a very rare combination.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:17 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by jrlxr7 View Post
Once I became accustomed to getting 40 mpg and going 600-700 miles on a tank of gas with my 2011 Lincoln MKZ I felt that going back to a gasoline only engine was a regression. I chose the ES300h because of the fuel economy and quietness combined with the luxury....a very rare combination.
I dislike hybrids enough that I traded our 48MPG Prius in on a 17MPG Jeep Grand Cherokee Talk about a huge change in fuel cost
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Old 08-20-13, 11:41 AM   #37
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"pedal to the medal should be the same in all 3 modes."

I agree. I believe the only difference is how much (distance wise) you have to depress the throttle.
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Old 08-20-13, 01:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotB View Post
"pedal to the medal should be the same in all 3 modes."

I agree. I believe the only difference is how much (distance wise) you have to depress the throttle.
I can't speak for what the hybrid does, but, with ES350 transmission, there is a definite change in the shift points depending on the mode selected. In the Normal mode, for example, it will hold a lower gear when accelerating longer than it will in the ECO mode, and it will also more readily downshift to a lower gear in the Normal mode than in the ECO mode. Similarly, it will hold the lower gear even longer and downshift even more readily in the Sport mode. Thus, if, for example, I'm driving in the ECO mode and going up a steep hill and I switch to the Normal or Sport mode, the transmission will immediately shift to a lower gear, which leads both to improved performance and lower fuel economy.

Last edited by lesz; 08-20-13 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 08-20-13, 05:37 PM   #39
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We went with the 350 over the 300h for the wife for a few reasons:

1. Power, you can never have enough power in a car. My wife was driving a 4 banger Accord for years and I wanted her to drive something with more get-up. Having power can be a lifesaver on the freeway.

2. She drives about 16,000 miles a year, mostly freeway for her 80 mile roundtrip work commute. At $4/gallon that basically translates to about $464/year more in fuel than the 300h. This would take about 6 years of driving at this rate to make up for the $2700 difference. Not worth it for us.

3. We plan in keeping this car for probably 10 years. That means 160K before next car and as we know, hybrid technology is very reliable, but that 10 years you can be assured there will be lots of maintanence on costs involved. I'm projecting the simpler V6 will have less problems than the more complicated hybrid powertrain.

4. She doesn't like the look of spoiler on the ES and it comes with 17" wheels.

We have no regrets with our choice and glad Lexus offers the 2 powertrains to appeal to different people. You really can't go wrong either way.
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Old 09-07-13, 10:44 AM   #40
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I traded a 2009 Acura Tl with tech package for the ES300h mainly for the gas mileage, I was spending $3500 on my TL per year. I figured I should save around 2000 per year. so far I like the feel and the drive of the ES. Although I am used to the 280 hp on the TL I really feel that the power is adequate on the ES, def not as good but adequate and not what you would expect when you hear a 4 cy engine. The technology is pretty cool and the ride is comfortable, better that the TL
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Old 09-07-13, 02:30 PM   #41
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The ES300h is a beautiful car inside and out and is really a technical marvel....a real hybrid in a luxury vehicle. Anyone would be lucky and satisfied to own that car. But I chose the ES350 for the following reasons:

1. I could not justify the extra cost premium, even when considering the "long run". I also believe that the fuel efficiency of hybrids decreases as the car ages. I don't have any evidence of this, but it's just how I feel. I don't think that the fuel consumption is as predictable as its tranditional engine counterpart at 20k, 30k, or 100k miles down the road like a regular engine is.

2. I am not a fan of continuously variable transmissions. Granted I didn't drive the CVT in this hybrid, but I've driven them in other vehicles and they really annoyed me (nissan, infiniti, ford). At times the engine would make a lot of noise but appear to be doing nothing or have a hard time accelerating after a quick deceleration. At other times I just yearned for that "shift" feeling and associated forward propulsion. Maybe the ES300h has a better implementation of it, but that was an instant deal breaker for me. I should fix my attitude on this, because I believe more and more cars, hybrid or not, will be rolling out with the lighter and less expensive CVT.

3. After reading the manual, the hybrid system is indeed a technological marvel, but also one that seems very complicated with 2 or 3 engines, a battery, multitudes of sensors, etc. I just feel that it adds a lot of probability for things to break. Again, I don't have any evidence to back up my feelings. But I felt that if something on a hybrid broke, it would be mega expensive to fix. So because of that I felt buying the hybrid would necessitate spending another $2,000 on an extended warranty on top of the cost premium.

I love the technology in hybrids though...all of the cool gauges and just knowing the carefully designed choreography that is going on under the hood every second is exciting. But this go around I chose the ES350.

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Old 09-07-13, 10:12 PM   #42
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1) Don't like the sound/feel of CVT's.
2) Don't like the extra complexity and reduced reliability of the Hybrid's more complex mechanicals and electronics.
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Old 09-08-13, 05:30 AM   #43
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My third CVT hybrid (RX 400h, Prius, ES300h):

1. The CVT on the Lexus models just does not exhibit as much roar on acceleration as the Prius. In most cases, with the instant torque of the electric motor, it's pretty quiet. (I rented a Nissan Altima with their CVT and it was pretty good, mated to their 4 cyl. gas model).

2. 8 year warranty on the hybrid:
Hybrid System Warranty coverage is for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first, and covers the following components: Hybrid control module, Hybrid battery control module, Hybrid battery and inverter with converter.

I can't justify the extra cost, either, but 40 mpg average since March is nice when I see gas prices move up 20 cents in a couple weeks. The salesman we have used since 2006 says that in most cases people who test drive the hybrid buy it, but I don't disagree with any of the posters above who have a strong preference against some aspect of it. You have to be willing to accept "differences" in how it operates, but the technology is pretty slick.
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Old 09-08-13, 06:01 AM   #44
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I think that a lot of the difference with regard to whether it makes sense or not to choose the hybrid depends on where on how one typically drives. For me, I live out in the country. Not only is my driving style quite conservative, but it is very rare for me to drive in areas where I'm likely to encounter traffic lights or any other need to stop for any length of time. In the several months since I've had my ES350, I've been quite pleased with the gas mileage that I've gotten.

I check that mileage by dividing the actual miles traveled by the number of gallons of gas with with each fill up. My typical fuel consumption has been between 32 and 33 mpg. The worst I've gotten has been right around 30 mpg, and I've actually hit between 34 and 36 mpg a couple of times. Considering that my typical driving speeds on the country roads are fast enough that I would likely be using the internal combustion engine on a hybrid most of the time, the increases in mpg with a hybrid over what I'm getting with the non-hybrid wouldn't be nearly enough to justify the extra cost or the lower horsepower (for those instances where I need/want it). And the Toyota/Lexus V6 engines are such nice engines. Their smoothness and refinement makes them feel much like I would expect a small block V8 to feel. On the other hand, if the bulk of my driving was in a more urban area, I'm sure that I could have been quite happy with an ES300h, and if I were driving in conditions that were yielding only, say, 22 mpg with the ES350, I'm sure that I would be having second thoughts about whether I should have chosen the hybrid.

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Old 09-08-13, 08:30 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim256 View Post
1. The CVT on the Lexus models just does not exhibit as much roar on acceleration as the Prius. In most cases, with the instant torque of the electric motor, it's pretty quiet.
I drove the ES300h a couple of times. Quieter than the Prius, but nowhere near as refined as the 350.
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