Simultaneous Like / Dislike for my ES350
07-11-13, 07:43 PM
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Simultaneous Like / Dislike for my ES350
I'll start a long (first) post by saying that I'm likely very different from most Lexus buyers and most ES buyers. I'm a performance-car guy, and have always had RWD GT or sports cars. My stable at the moment includes a BMW M5 (E60 V10 version, SMG), M3 convertible (E93, DCT), an older Z4, an older Porsche 911 (6-speed, type 996), and a 2012 Porsche Carrera GTS PDK. All my cars are at my Los Angeles home except for the GTS, but I'm in Taiwan and China 95% of the time handling my property development/investment business, so I purchased the 911 GTS about 2 years ago.
Some moron decided to hit it and cause ~$40k USD of damage (cars here are double US prices, same for repair costs). I decided to get a more low-key daily-driver, and after much deliberating I decided to get an ES350 as it was a compelling value- all 350's are delivered fully loaded in Taiwan for $2.35 million Taiwan dollars (about $80k USD). At that price point, you could get a base (no options whatsoever) BMW 328 or 520 diesel. I decided to get the Lexus, knowing that it was a very comfort-oriented car with FWD- thinking it would keep me from driving fast. After half a year of ownership, I've developed many opinions about the car.
The dislikes (some are incredibly nit-picky, and yes I'm very opinionated):
- The window and door lock mechanisms and switches are cheap. They are Toyota parts and I understand they'll never break, but they're just cheap looking/feeling. The door locks give an unsatisfying loud "clunk" sound when you lock the doors. German cars on the other hand are much softer in their sound and "refined".
- The stereo (Mark Levinson) is not very good- I'd rate it as average. The bass distorts easily, although the highs are relatively clear.
- The random function for the audio is incredibly irritating. Random should be like this- whatever the playlist is, each song will be played precisely once until every song is played- and then the cycle starts over. Apple and Samsung phones/MP3 devices do this- my other cars all do this. The Lexus however, does a truly random pick of the next song- and to add to my frustration, it goes random both forwards and backwards. What the hell is the point of that? Sometimes the audio system will play the exact same song twice in a row, and other times it will completely fail to ever find a song. Interestingly, if you hit "track backward" twice in a row quickly, it will go exactly one track down- clearly a programming error.
- The automatic transmission has a mind of its own. I always drive in the sport mode, and if I make an aggressive throttle application, the transmission will first kick down one gear, and then proceed to kick down one more gear in maybe 1 second. It should just downshift at once- it's an automatic transmission and there's no reason why the transmission needs to shift gears sequentially. And, not that I shift manually, but the manual shift directions for the gear-lever are reversed. Push should be to downshift, pull to upshift.
- The step-on parking brake is just a joke at a car of this price point. In this day and age, put in an electronic parking brake for a luxury car- sports car give me a manual handbrake. Leave the step-on for econoboxes.
- The seat memory functions can only be used when the car is in park. I understand this is a safety feature, but really the car should just need to be stopped, not in park.
- The curvature of the windshield seems to have some issue with allowing suction cups to adhere for long periods of time. I use a Garmin NUVI as it alerts me to speed cameras and has a built-in video camera (necessary in Taiwan), and I also have my parking garage transponder on the windshield, and both constantly fall off after a couple of days. I do not have this issue with other cars.
- The general shape of the front-end and hood makes it incredibly difficult to place the front corners of the car. I completely cannot tell where the edges of the car are.
- The power steering is so over-boosted that I can't even rest my hand on the wheel at a stoplight without turning the wheel. (and I'm a skinny guy!)
- With only a little effort, you can swivel the shift **** around. Poor quality IMO.
- The automatic head lights are way too sensitive. Taipei is an urban jungle with overpasses all over the place, and the head lights are constantly switching on and off all of the time. I recall one time that I was driving down a tree-lined street at sunset and the auto-lights turned on and off maybe 20 times in a row over a 5 minute period.
- The single-use-click for the windshield wiper involved pushing the lever up, whereas it really should be pushed down (like most cars). Sometimes you want to manually operate the wipers when there is only light rain, and in that case you will be regularly using this single-use function. It is much more intuitive and ergonomically correct to push a lever down, rather than push it up. (think about the position of your hands on the steering wheel, and how to push it up, you need to rotate the palm of your hand up). Very poorly designed. I almost feel as if Lexus purposely designed it this way to be the opposite of the Germans.
- In general, the driving experience is pretty atrocious if you desire to drive at speed. The cornering is very uninspiring, with absolutely no steering feel. Brakes are weak, body control non-existent and way too floaty. The car breaks traction from a stoplight if you give it too much throttle (even on good, dry pavement). I understand that this is a comfort-oriented car, but just saying.
***********************
With that being said, I will admit that the car is a great value, generally speaking built very well, and will outlast all my German cars. My ES will definitely do its job- being a good commuter car, but in that sense I will always see it as an appliance. It's like a microwave- gets a task done in a very one-dimensional way, with no soul or emotion. I love all my other cars (they even all have names), and they receive lots of care and attention. The Lexus- unfortunately won't. It is just such a boring, bland car. Completely "blah".
Does anyone else feel the same way as me?
Some moron decided to hit it and cause ~$40k USD of damage (cars here are double US prices, same for repair costs). I decided to get a more low-key daily-driver, and after much deliberating I decided to get an ES350 as it was a compelling value- all 350's are delivered fully loaded in Taiwan for $2.35 million Taiwan dollars (about $80k USD). At that price point, you could get a base (no options whatsoever) BMW 328 or 520 diesel. I decided to get the Lexus, knowing that it was a very comfort-oriented car with FWD- thinking it would keep me from driving fast. After half a year of ownership, I've developed many opinions about the car.
The dislikes (some are incredibly nit-picky, and yes I'm very opinionated):
- The window and door lock mechanisms and switches are cheap. They are Toyota parts and I understand they'll never break, but they're just cheap looking/feeling. The door locks give an unsatisfying loud "clunk" sound when you lock the doors. German cars on the other hand are much softer in their sound and "refined".
- The stereo (Mark Levinson) is not very good- I'd rate it as average. The bass distorts easily, although the highs are relatively clear.
- The random function for the audio is incredibly irritating. Random should be like this- whatever the playlist is, each song will be played precisely once until every song is played- and then the cycle starts over. Apple and Samsung phones/MP3 devices do this- my other cars all do this. The Lexus however, does a truly random pick of the next song- and to add to my frustration, it goes random both forwards and backwards. What the hell is the point of that? Sometimes the audio system will play the exact same song twice in a row, and other times it will completely fail to ever find a song. Interestingly, if you hit "track backward" twice in a row quickly, it will go exactly one track down- clearly a programming error.
- The automatic transmission has a mind of its own. I always drive in the sport mode, and if I make an aggressive throttle application, the transmission will first kick down one gear, and then proceed to kick down one more gear in maybe 1 second. It should just downshift at once- it's an automatic transmission and there's no reason why the transmission needs to shift gears sequentially. And, not that I shift manually, but the manual shift directions for the gear-lever are reversed. Push should be to downshift, pull to upshift.
- The step-on parking brake is just a joke at a car of this price point. In this day and age, put in an electronic parking brake for a luxury car- sports car give me a manual handbrake. Leave the step-on for econoboxes.
- The seat memory functions can only be used when the car is in park. I understand this is a safety feature, but really the car should just need to be stopped, not in park.
- The curvature of the windshield seems to have some issue with allowing suction cups to adhere for long periods of time. I use a Garmin NUVI as it alerts me to speed cameras and has a built-in video camera (necessary in Taiwan), and I also have my parking garage transponder on the windshield, and both constantly fall off after a couple of days. I do not have this issue with other cars.
- The general shape of the front-end and hood makes it incredibly difficult to place the front corners of the car. I completely cannot tell where the edges of the car are.
- The power steering is so over-boosted that I can't even rest my hand on the wheel at a stoplight without turning the wheel. (and I'm a skinny guy!)
- With only a little effort, you can swivel the shift **** around. Poor quality IMO.
- The automatic head lights are way too sensitive. Taipei is an urban jungle with overpasses all over the place, and the head lights are constantly switching on and off all of the time. I recall one time that I was driving down a tree-lined street at sunset and the auto-lights turned on and off maybe 20 times in a row over a 5 minute period.
- The single-use-click for the windshield wiper involved pushing the lever up, whereas it really should be pushed down (like most cars). Sometimes you want to manually operate the wipers when there is only light rain, and in that case you will be regularly using this single-use function. It is much more intuitive and ergonomically correct to push a lever down, rather than push it up. (think about the position of your hands on the steering wheel, and how to push it up, you need to rotate the palm of your hand up). Very poorly designed. I almost feel as if Lexus purposely designed it this way to be the opposite of the Germans.
- In general, the driving experience is pretty atrocious if you desire to drive at speed. The cornering is very uninspiring, with absolutely no steering feel. Brakes are weak, body control non-existent and way too floaty. The car breaks traction from a stoplight if you give it too much throttle (even on good, dry pavement). I understand that this is a comfort-oriented car, but just saying.
***********************
With that being said, I will admit that the car is a great value, generally speaking built very well, and will outlast all my German cars. My ES will definitely do its job- being a good commuter car, but in that sense I will always see it as an appliance. It's like a microwave- gets a task done in a very one-dimensional way, with no soul or emotion. I love all my other cars (they even all have names), and they receive lots of care and attention. The Lexus- unfortunately won't. It is just such a boring, bland car. Completely "blah".
Does anyone else feel the same way as me?
07-11-13, 08:21 PM
#2
Welcome!
I'm also a p-car owner, and track rat.
I'm in a 300h, and use sport mostly, but don't shift it.
I also have a suction cup camera on the windshield, in so fla, and car was outside mostly till last week..., but stuck well 99% of the time. (It fell off 2x in 6 mo;s) you may need a larger suction cup.
my biggest complaint is the soft suspension. I'd like to see it stiffen up in sport mode. other than that. -its another toaster.
if you find some coilover kits let us know, eh?
I'm also a p-car owner, and track rat.
I'm in a 300h, and use sport mostly, but don't shift it.
I also have a suction cup camera on the windshield, in so fla, and car was outside mostly till last week..., but stuck well 99% of the time. (It fell off 2x in 6 mo;s) you may need a larger suction cup.
my biggest complaint is the soft suspension. I'd like to see it stiffen up in sport mode. other than that. -its another toaster.
if you find some coilover kits let us know, eh?
07-12-13, 07:43 AM
#3
I'll start a long (first) post by saying that I'm likely very different from most Lexus buyers and most ES buyers. I'm a performance-car guy, and have always had RWD GT or sports cars. My stable at the moment includes a BMW M5 (E60 V10 version, SMG), M3 convertible (E93, DCT), an older Z4, an older Porsche 911 (6-speed, type 996), and a 2012 Porsche Carrera GTS PDK. All my cars are at my Los Angeles home except for the GTS, but I'm in Taiwan and China 95% of the time handling my property development/investment business, so I purchased the 911 GTS about 2 years ago.
Some moron decided to hit it and cause ~$40k USD of damage (cars here are double US prices, same for repair costs). I decided to get a more low-key daily-driver, and after much deliberating I decided to get an ES350 as it was a compelling value- all 350's are delivered fully loaded in Taiwan for $2.35 million Taiwan dollars (about $80k USD). At that price point, you could get a base (no options whatsoever) BMW 328 or 520 diesel. I decided to get the Lexus, knowing that it was a very comfort-oriented car with FWD- thinking it would keep me from driving fast. After half a year of ownership, I've developed many opinions about the car.
The dislikes (some are incredibly nit-picky, and yes I'm very opinionated):
- The window and door lock mechanisms and switches are cheap. They are Toyota parts and I understand they'll never break, but they're just cheap looking/feeling. The door locks give an unsatisfying loud "clunk" sound when you lock the doors. German cars on the other hand are much softer in their sound and "refined".
- The stereo (Mark Levinson) is not very good- I'd rate it as average. The bass distorts easily, although the highs are relatively clear.
- The random function for the audio is incredibly irritating. Random should be like this- whatever the playlist is, each song will be played precisely once until every song is played- and then the cycle starts over. Apple and Samsung phones/MP3 devices do this- my other cars all do this. The Lexus however, does a truly random pick of the next song- and to add to my frustration, it goes random both forwards and backwards. What the hell is the point of that? Sometimes the audio system will play the exact same song twice in a row, and other times it will completely fail to ever find a song. Interestingly, if you hit "track backward" twice in a row quickly, it will go exactly one track down- clearly a programming error.
- The automatic transmission has a mind of its own. I always drive in the sport mode, and if I make an aggressive throttle application, the transmission will first kick down one gear, and then proceed to kick down one more gear in maybe 1 second. It should just downshift at once- it's an automatic transmission and there's no reason why the transmission needs to shift gears sequentially. And, not that I shift manually, but the manual shift directions for the gear-lever are reversed. Push should be to downshift, pull to upshift.
- The step-on parking brake is just a joke at a car of this price point. In this day and age, put in an electronic parking brake for a luxury car- sports car give me a manual handbrake. Leave the step-on for econoboxes.
- The seat memory functions can only be used when the car is in park. I understand this is a safety feature, but really the car should just need to be stopped, not in park.
- The curvature of the windshield seems to have some issue with allowing suction cups to adhere for long periods of time. I use a Garmin NUVI as it alerts me to speed cameras and has a built-in video camera (necessary in Taiwan), and I also have my parking garage transponder on the windshield, and both constantly fall off after a couple of days. I do not have this issue with other cars.
- The general shape of the front-end and hood makes it incredibly difficult to place the front corners of the car. I completely cannot tell where the edges of the car are.
- The power steering is so over-boosted that I can't even rest my hand on the wheel at a stoplight without turning the wheel. (and I'm a skinny guy!)
- With only a little effort, you can swivel the shift **** around. Poor quality IMO.
- The automatic head lights are way too sensitive. Taipei is an urban jungle with overpasses all over the place, and the head lights are constantly switching on and off all of the time. I recall one time that I was driving down a tree-lined street at sunset and the auto-lights turned on and off maybe 20 times in a row over a 5 minute period.
- The single-use-click for the windshield wiper involved pushing the lever up, whereas it really should be pushed down (like most cars). Sometimes you want to manually operate the wipers when there is only light rain, and in that case you will be regularly using this single-use function. It is much more intuitive and ergonomically correct to push a lever down, rather than push it up. (think about the position of your hands on the steering wheel, and how to push it up, you need to rotate the palm of your hand up). Very poorly designed. I almost feel as if Lexus purposely designed it this way to be the opposite of the Germans.
- In general, the driving experience is pretty atrocious if you desire to drive at speed. The cornering is very uninspiring, with absolutely no steering feel. Brakes are weak, body control non-existent and way too floaty. The car breaks traction from a stoplight if you give it too much throttle (even on good, dry pavement). I understand that this is a comfort-oriented car, but just saying.
***********************
With that being said, I will admit that the car is a great value, generally speaking built very well, and will outlast all my German cars. My ES will definitely do its job- being a good commuter car, but in that sense I will always see it as an appliance. It's like a microwave- gets a task done in a very one-dimensional way, with no soul or emotion. I love all my other cars (they even all have names), and they receive lots of care and attention. The Lexus- unfortunately won't. It is just such a boring, bland car. Completely "blah".
Does anyone else feel the same way as me?
Some moron decided to hit it and cause ~$40k USD of damage (cars here are double US prices, same for repair costs). I decided to get a more low-key daily-driver, and after much deliberating I decided to get an ES350 as it was a compelling value- all 350's are delivered fully loaded in Taiwan for $2.35 million Taiwan dollars (about $80k USD). At that price point, you could get a base (no options whatsoever) BMW 328 or 520 diesel. I decided to get the Lexus, knowing that it was a very comfort-oriented car with FWD- thinking it would keep me from driving fast. After half a year of ownership, I've developed many opinions about the car.
The dislikes (some are incredibly nit-picky, and yes I'm very opinionated):
- The window and door lock mechanisms and switches are cheap. They are Toyota parts and I understand they'll never break, but they're just cheap looking/feeling. The door locks give an unsatisfying loud "clunk" sound when you lock the doors. German cars on the other hand are much softer in their sound and "refined".
- The stereo (Mark Levinson) is not very good- I'd rate it as average. The bass distorts easily, although the highs are relatively clear.
- The random function for the audio is incredibly irritating. Random should be like this- whatever the playlist is, each song will be played precisely once until every song is played- and then the cycle starts over. Apple and Samsung phones/MP3 devices do this- my other cars all do this. The Lexus however, does a truly random pick of the next song- and to add to my frustration, it goes random both forwards and backwards. What the hell is the point of that? Sometimes the audio system will play the exact same song twice in a row, and other times it will completely fail to ever find a song. Interestingly, if you hit "track backward" twice in a row quickly, it will go exactly one track down- clearly a programming error.
- The automatic transmission has a mind of its own. I always drive in the sport mode, and if I make an aggressive throttle application, the transmission will first kick down one gear, and then proceed to kick down one more gear in maybe 1 second. It should just downshift at once- it's an automatic transmission and there's no reason why the transmission needs to shift gears sequentially. And, not that I shift manually, but the manual shift directions for the gear-lever are reversed. Push should be to downshift, pull to upshift.
- The step-on parking brake is just a joke at a car of this price point. In this day and age, put in an electronic parking brake for a luxury car- sports car give me a manual handbrake. Leave the step-on for econoboxes.
- The seat memory functions can only be used when the car is in park. I understand this is a safety feature, but really the car should just need to be stopped, not in park.
- The curvature of the windshield seems to have some issue with allowing suction cups to adhere for long periods of time. I use a Garmin NUVI as it alerts me to speed cameras and has a built-in video camera (necessary in Taiwan), and I also have my parking garage transponder on the windshield, and both constantly fall off after a couple of days. I do not have this issue with other cars.
- The general shape of the front-end and hood makes it incredibly difficult to place the front corners of the car. I completely cannot tell where the edges of the car are.
- The power steering is so over-boosted that I can't even rest my hand on the wheel at a stoplight without turning the wheel. (and I'm a skinny guy!)
- With only a little effort, you can swivel the shift **** around. Poor quality IMO.
- The automatic head lights are way too sensitive. Taipei is an urban jungle with overpasses all over the place, and the head lights are constantly switching on and off all of the time. I recall one time that I was driving down a tree-lined street at sunset and the auto-lights turned on and off maybe 20 times in a row over a 5 minute period.
- The single-use-click for the windshield wiper involved pushing the lever up, whereas it really should be pushed down (like most cars). Sometimes you want to manually operate the wipers when there is only light rain, and in that case you will be regularly using this single-use function. It is much more intuitive and ergonomically correct to push a lever down, rather than push it up. (think about the position of your hands on the steering wheel, and how to push it up, you need to rotate the palm of your hand up). Very poorly designed. I almost feel as if Lexus purposely designed it this way to be the opposite of the Germans.
- In general, the driving experience is pretty atrocious if you desire to drive at speed. The cornering is very uninspiring, with absolutely no steering feel. Brakes are weak, body control non-existent and way too floaty. The car breaks traction from a stoplight if you give it too much throttle (even on good, dry pavement). I understand that this is a comfort-oriented car, but just saying.
***********************
With that being said, I will admit that the car is a great value, generally speaking built very well, and will outlast all my German cars. My ES will definitely do its job- being a good commuter car, but in that sense I will always see it as an appliance. It's like a microwave- gets a task done in a very one-dimensional way, with no soul or emotion. I love all my other cars (they even all have names), and they receive lots of care and attention. The Lexus- unfortunately won't. It is just such a boring, bland car. Completely "blah".
Does anyone else feel the same way as me?
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07-12-13, 04:48 PM
#9
I'll start a long (first) post by saying that I'm likely very different from most Lexus buyers and most ES buyers. I'm a performance-car guy, and have always had RWD GT or sports cars. My stable at the moment includes a BMW M5 (E60 V10 version, SMG), M3 convertible (E93, DCT), an older Z4, an older Porsche 911 (6-speed, type 996), and a 2012 Porsche Carrera GTS PDK. All my cars are at my Los Angeles home except for the GTS, but I'm in Taiwan and China 95% of the time handling my property development/investment business, so I purchased the 911 GTS about 2 years ago.
which ones on your list are dependable, reliable and cheap to maintain?
not to mention carry 4 people and luggage.
Sound system is probably the most legitimate complaint...
btw that M5 is a monster!
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