daryll40

What is the "real world", actual transaction price difference between similarly equipped hybrid vs not hybrid 2013 ES cars?

LexBob2

This will vary by area and demand. truecar.com will give you some transaction info for your particular area.

daryll40

Can't vary too much. How bout just a ballpark number? 2 grand? 4 grand? 7 grand.

Mike728

Pretty sure it varies by MSRP in each area. If you can get 8% off a 300h, you should be able to get 8% off a 350. But, it's been proven that you can get your best deals in CA.

Music4ever

When I was looking at the 2013 ES, I looked at both vehicles as well and negotiated both vehicles to see if it was worth buying the 300h. The price difference that I got was $2,792.00 between the two vehicles, that is why I choose the 300h fuel economy. I drive about 50,000 miles a year so it made sense. Hope this helps.

mrBillFL

ballpark 2500 diff

http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/?ps=new

you could look at TMV and pick your options

wasjr

It is tough to be precise on this question as folks will look at this differently. Going from memory when I was in the buying process, the MSRP difference in the base is about $2,700-2,800. In trying my best to compare apples to apples, looking at comparably equipped cars, I calculated my net difference to be about $2,100. There was some difference in negotiation as in my area, the 300h is not as popular as elsewhere. Additionally, if I had purchased the 350 I would have added the optional 17" wheels, and the 300h has a spoiler standard which is about a $300 option on the 350. Obviously others would look at it differently, but that is how I calculated the difference.

Mike218

Not counting purchase price. Looking at a ES350, but have been reading about the 350h. If I keep my car 6 years or more, do you think the H will have less, more, or the same about of problems a older 350 would have. Looking ahead at rising fuel prices, makes me wonder if I should seriously consider the 300h

Any thoughts

jollick

I would and did go for the ES300h, Toyota has an excellent track record with their hybrid systems and if gas prices do rise the used value may also rise. I would expect both cars to be problem free for many years.

JerryKK

Not only do I live in California where gas prices are high but I live on the Central Coast where we have almost the most expensive gas prices in the state. That was the determining factor for our choosing the 300h. You should look at your own area and determine what is best for you.

pintado

As a retired engineer, I was fascinated by the 300h technology. The ballpark price differential seemed to be about $2800 above a similarly equipped 350. Assuming the 300h got TWICE the gas mileage (unlikely) and gas priced at $4 per gallon, I calculated that it would take at least 28,000 miles to cover the price differential. This would take me about four years! The deal-breaker for me though, was the loss of three cubic feet of trunk space in the 300h vs. the 350.

chewbach

One point of clarification on the gas / hybrid price difference. If you work from the assumption that the 300h will depreciate at the same rate as the 350, then the price difference is lower. (The actual difference will depend on when you sell/trade the car.) Of course, I have no idea if that assumption is a good one. Given the inevitable battery replacement of the 300h, one would think it would depreciate faster. However, hybrids are still something of a "premium" that people tend to pay more for. Thus, perhaps those two points offset each other.

Consequently, I drive about 2k miles/month. If I trade my ES300h when it depreciates to 40% of the original purchase price, that equates to about a 13 month payback for the hybrid premium (based on $4/gallon gas). Theoretically, that would put me about $3k AHEAD of the 350 if I sold/trade in 4 years. (Emphasis on "theoretically"!)

SW17LS

I had a Prius up to 80,000 miles, and from a trouble perspective the only issue we ever had pertaining to the hybrid system was a bad inverter coolant pump which left my wife stranded. We paid $400 to replace it and later were refunded that when it was recalled.

Another thing to consider in the pro 300h column is that the Toyota HSD system has regenerative brakes, meaning the service brakes get used much less frequently, and last much longer. Our Prius had the original front and rear brakes when we sold it at 80k miles, where my previous ES cars have needed front brakes by 40k. The Jeep we replaced the Prius with is in the shop now getting new front brakes at 28k, so the way we drive is brake heavy obviously.

As for battery replacement, I posted on the Prius forums when we had that, and there were cars with 300k+ miles on the original batteries, battery replacement is rare. Saying that the battery replacement is "inevitable" is like saying engine or transmission replacement is "inevitable".

I would not worry about maintenance with the hybrid, I discounted the hybrid when I was looking at the ES because I just don't like how they drive.

Arty101

Gas in the SF area is already at $4.10 on the average, and may still be higher than the Central Coast. Next to Hawaii which needs to import gas, Calif requires it own special formulation to reduce smog and air pollution making gas prices the highest in the 48 states. We can't even bring gas from other states since they have the regular formulation. So if you're calculating your cost between the normal or hybride, $4 per gallons may be on the low side. If future trend continues on gas prices, it will probably go up towards $5 within the next few years.

Condering the difference of $2800 between the hybride and gas ES, 15k average annual miles, $4.50/gallon (average cost from $4- $5), the period to recoup the cost will be approximately 2 1/2 years based on the combined estimated mpg. This doesn't include other factors including difference in maintenance, depreciation and insurance. Around here, most hybrids cost way more than the $2800 premium, and depreciate less than their gas counterpart. There's still a high demand for hybrids especially when gas price rises. I don't expect that to change.

Regarding battery life as previously stated, Toyota hybrids have done well in taxis cabs and 10+ year old cars as reported by CR. Honda hybrids on the other hand haven't been as reliable so ymmv. Insurance? Well, insurance for a 200 hp (combined) hybrid vs a 268 hp V6 should be lower too. The total cost of ownership (over in Calif where there's demand for hybrid and higher gas prices) should be lower well within 3 years for the 300h.

Mike728

Actually, Chicago has the highest prices of anyone. Interesting chart HERE.

I would have a hard time driving a hybrid, even if gas hit $6/gal. I could not live with the sound of the engine in the hybrid. The V6 sounds so much better. Everyone has their priorities.