ES 330h - would you buy it?
03-04-13, 03:10 PM
#1
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ES 330h - would you buy it?
From the start of the rumors that Lexus was planning on releasing a hybrid ES, I've been wondering about the idea of Lexus making an ES 330h using the same gas / electric engine that is in the RX / Highlander hybrids. Obviously this didn't happen and the company decided to reuse the existing sedan hybrid technology from their playbook.
From all accounts the 300h does well in terms of power, but I (and I'm sure others) can't get over the low-rpm vibration and high limit-rpm buzziness that are inherent in a 4-banger. Maybe with balance shafts and a turbo that would cancel out those concerns (as in the 2012+ BMW 528i), I would consider it, but I still have a strong preference towards a naturally aspirated inline or v-6 over a turbo or supercharged/direct injected four.
My hypothetical questions for current 2013 owners are:
1) Did you buy a 350 or a 300h?
2) If an ES 330h was available at the time of purchase (for the same price as the 300h) achieving 34 city / 34 highway with a combined 270HP (208 gas + 62 electric) , what car would you have bought and why? (mpg ? cost? power? )
(the 300h is rated at 40 city/ 39 highway)
Personally:
1) 350
2) Would have bought the 330h!
From all accounts the 300h does well in terms of power, but I (and I'm sure others) can't get over the low-rpm vibration and high limit-rpm buzziness that are inherent in a 4-banger. Maybe with balance shafts and a turbo that would cancel out those concerns (as in the 2012+ BMW 528i), I would consider it, but I still have a strong preference towards a naturally aspirated inline or v-6 over a turbo or supercharged/direct injected four.
My hypothetical questions for current 2013 owners are:
1) Did you buy a 350 or a 300h?
2) If an ES 330h was available at the time of purchase (for the same price as the 300h) achieving 34 city / 34 highway with a combined 270HP (208 gas + 62 electric) , what car would you have bought and why? (mpg ? cost? power? )
(the 300h is rated at 40 city/ 39 highway)
Personally:
1) 350
2) Would have bought the 330h!
03-04-13, 04:05 PM
#2
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(1) ES300h
(2) Absolutely not, but I'm all for product differentiation for the benefit of the marketplace. I am a hybrid absolutist: To take the plunge into the electric/gasoline world the tradeoffs are immense, and it had better deliver superb mileage. Creature comforts and size are paramount, hence I don't drive a Prius. A performance-enhanced version, ie ES330h does not compute to me - better to drive either a full blooded hybrid or athletic conventional version of the ES.
(2) Absolutely not, but I'm all for product differentiation for the benefit of the marketplace. I am a hybrid absolutist: To take the plunge into the electric/gasoline world the tradeoffs are immense, and it had better deliver superb mileage. Creature comforts and size are paramount, hence I don't drive a Prius. A performance-enhanced version, ie ES330h does not compute to me - better to drive either a full blooded hybrid or athletic conventional version of the ES.
Last edited by Fly4u; 03-04-13 at 05:02 PM.
03-04-13, 05:02 PM
#5
From the start of the rumors that Lexus was planning on releasing a hybrid ES, I've been wondering about the idea of Lexus making an ES 330h using the same gas / electric engine that is in the RX / Highlander hybrids. Obviously this didn't happen and the company decided to reuse the existing sedan hybrid technology from their playbook.
From all accounts the 300h does well in terms of power, but I (and I'm sure others) can't get over the low-rpm vibration and high limit-rpm buzziness that are inherent in a 4-banger. Maybe with balance shafts and a turbo that would cancel out those concerns (as in the 2012+ BMW 528i), I would consider it, but I still have a strong preference towards a naturally aspirated inline or v-6 over a turbo or supercharged/direct injected four.
My hypothetical questions for current 2013 owners are:
1) Did you buy a 350 or a 300h?
2) If an ES 330h was available at the time of purchase (for the same price as the 300h) achieving 34 city / 34 highway with a combined 270HP (208 gas + 62 electric) , what car would you have bought and why? (mpg ? cost? power? )
(the 300h is rated at 40 city/ 39 highway)
Personally:
1) 350
2) Would have bought the 330h!
From all accounts the 300h does well in terms of power, but I (and I'm sure others) can't get over the low-rpm vibration and high limit-rpm buzziness that are inherent in a 4-banger. Maybe with balance shafts and a turbo that would cancel out those concerns (as in the 2012+ BMW 528i), I would consider it, but I still have a strong preference towards a naturally aspirated inline or v-6 over a turbo or supercharged/direct injected four.
My hypothetical questions for current 2013 owners are:
1) Did you buy a 350 or a 300h?
2) If an ES 330h was available at the time of purchase (for the same price as the 300h) achieving 34 city / 34 highway with a combined 270HP (208 gas + 62 electric) , what car would you have bought and why? (mpg ? cost? power? )
(the 300h is rated at 40 city/ 39 highway)
Personally:
1) 350
2) Would have bought the 330h!
03-04-13, 07:10 PM
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1. ES300h
2. Once you start seeing 40 mpg fuel consumption, you would never go back. Get it with Michelin tires and you will feel the smooth quite ride. There is a lot of power driving 300h in sports mode. it gives you 4 drive modes to choose from, EV, economy, normal and sports. It all depends on what you want from a vehicle. If power is your driving decision, no mpg rating will satisfy you. For me it was right amount of luxury, mpg and the price point. Several years ago I looked at the Camry hybrid. It was 10k more than gas powered. Not the case with es. It's very similar priced than 350 but you double your mpg.
2. Once you start seeing 40 mpg fuel consumption, you would never go back. Get it with Michelin tires and you will feel the smooth quite ride. There is a lot of power driving 300h in sports mode. it gives you 4 drive modes to choose from, EV, economy, normal and sports. It all depends on what you want from a vehicle. If power is your driving decision, no mpg rating will satisfy you. For me it was right amount of luxury, mpg and the price point. Several years ago I looked at the Camry hybrid. It was 10k more than gas powered. Not the case with es. It's very similar priced than 350 but you double your mpg.
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03-04-13, 09:00 PM
#8
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The engine I had in mind was the 3.3 L 3MZ FE. Using Lexus naming convention, it would have been the 300h, as in the Rx300h, but we already have a 300h.
03-05-13, 06:30 AM
#9
1) es300h, 2) no. -your stated issues are not apparent to me.
IIRC, the GS uses EV for additional power, vs additional economy.
and the CX uses the 1.8 from the prius, for better mpg.
is there a LS 'h' option? (or an IS option) I'm not seeing that. -adding hybrids to those lines would be good ideas.
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/?ps=new
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-450h/2013/?sub=sedan
=== edmunds: ===
GS: uses v6 3.5ltr
Powertrains and Performance
Powering the 2013 Lexus GS 450h are a 3.5-liter gasoline V6 and a pair of electric motors. A total system output of 338 horsepower is sent to the rear wheels through a specialized continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT).
Lexus estimates that the GS 450h will go from zero to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds, a swift performance that slots in between six-cylinder and V8 midsize luxury sedans. EPA-estimated fuel economy is 29 mpg city/34 mpg highway and 31 mpg combined.
IIRC, the GS uses EV for additional power, vs additional economy.
and the CX uses the 1.8 from the prius, for better mpg.
is there a LS 'h' option? (or an IS option) I'm not seeing that. -adding hybrids to those lines would be good ideas.
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/?ps=new
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-450h/2013/?sub=sedan
=== edmunds: ===
GS: uses v6 3.5ltr
Powertrains and Performance
Powering the 2013 Lexus GS 450h are a 3.5-liter gasoline V6 and a pair of electric motors. A total system output of 338 horsepower is sent to the rear wheels through a specialized continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT).
Lexus estimates that the GS 450h will go from zero to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds, a swift performance that slots in between six-cylinder and V8 midsize luxury sedans. EPA-estimated fuel economy is 29 mpg city/34 mpg highway and 31 mpg combined.
Last edited by mrBillFL; 03-05-13 at 06:47 AM.
03-05-13, 08:04 AM
#10
1.) ES300h
2.) No, I'd went for the one with the most gas mileage. That's why I traded my F in on it, to get more gas mileage and have a smoother riding 70 mile roundtrip daily commute. I get all of that in the 300h. It has plenty of power for what it is.
2.) No, I'd went for the one with the most gas mileage. That's why I traded my F in on it, to get more gas mileage and have a smoother riding 70 mile roundtrip daily commute. I get all of that in the 300h. It has plenty of power for what it is.
03-05-13, 08:51 AM
#11
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1) 300h (as of this Friday)
2) No as I'm focused more on fuel efficiency.
It will be interesting to see what the diesel A6 will be rated at when it hits US soil this Fall. From what I'm reading, Passat diesel driver are averaging high 30's / low 40's.
2) No as I'm focused more on fuel efficiency.
It will be interesting to see what the diesel A6 will be rated at when it hits US soil this Fall. From what I'm reading, Passat diesel driver are averaging high 30's / low 40's.
03-05-13, 09:09 AM
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"The ES300h I purchased is the best of the 4 Lexus I have owned, plenty of power and I have averaged 42 mph."
Quesiton for REDOG: I have a gs450h and am thinking of trading it in for the ES300h or RX450h -- so I'm curious what other lexuses you are comparing your ES300h to? I am leaning towards the RX450h for adequate power -- and the ES300h for adequate fuel efficiency. I'd be happy to hear the ES300h compares favorably to the GS for power....
Quesiton for REDOG: I have a gs450h and am thinking of trading it in for the ES300h or RX450h -- so I'm curious what other lexuses you are comparing your ES300h to? I am leaning towards the RX450h for adequate power -- and the ES300h for adequate fuel efficiency. I'd be happy to hear the ES300h compares favorably to the GS for power....
03-05-13, 10:33 AM
#13
1) 300h
2) No as I'm focused more on fuel efficiency. I also feel the 300h has enough power.
2) No as I'm focused more on fuel efficiency. I also feel the 300h has enough power.
03-05-13, 06:41 PM
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I first began looking into buying an ES 350, however the ES 300h intrigued me. I ended up purchasing an ES 300h, which I love, love, love. I commute over the Coronado Bridge and it has plenty of torque and power. It's smooth buttery ride is awesome. As gas prices rise, I just smile.
03-06-13, 08:08 AM
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1) 300h
2) With your example I'd stay with 300h.
BUT Its possible that a small engine increase would improve fuel economy. I notice when driving that when cruising the instant mpg reading can be very high for a steady drive at 35mph ~ 50mph until hybrid mode kicks in.
The RX has gone through 3 engines: RX300, RX330, RX350.
Each time the fuel economy improved, because the car is so heavy that the smaller engines worked too hard. I believe that a similar issue is here with the 300h.
2) With your example I'd stay with 300h.
BUT Its possible that a small engine increase would improve fuel economy. I notice when driving that when cruising the instant mpg reading can be very high for a steady drive at 35mph ~ 50mph until hybrid mode kicks in.
The RX has gone through 3 engines: RX300, RX330, RX350.
Each time the fuel economy improved, because the car is so heavy that the smaller engines worked too hard. I believe that a similar issue is here with the 300h.