SW17LS

Resale perspective no question the Lexus will be better. If you lease though Ford will have a subsidized MKZ lease that makes it a non issue.

riknchar

I've read this relatively old thread with interest, and thought I'd reopen the thread by adding my perspective.

Right up front, let me admit that I have never owned an ES350, but I've always felt they were the epitome of a solid, reliable, high-quality entry level luxury car. I had always aspired to own one some day.

Well, the day finally came where I could afford to buy a new ES350. I took a 2014 ES350 out on a test drive, and was pretty impressed by the car overall. The price had risen steadily over the years -- they used to be in the lower $30K range, now they're more like mid-40s, but I know many users report getting decent discounts.

Anyway, while I was mulling over the ES350 purchase, I happened to sit in a Certified Pre-Owned LS460L AWD (the "stretched" version). Holy crap that was a nice car! I did something dumb and took it for a test drive. Partway through the test drive, I honestly had the eery feeling that something had gone wrong with my hearing -- the car was like being in a soundproof booth, with absolutely no road, engine, or wind noise.

I started reading the Lexus LS forums, and discovered how well loved and respected the LS is. I then discovered that there was such a thing as an LS600hL--the ultimate Lexus flagship with a massive 5-liter V8 PLUS a hybrid electric motor and AWD. Rated at 438 HP, and even quieter than the LS460! Gets an amazing 22MPG in town...

So the point of the story is that I quickly moved up from a new ES350 (for around $42K out the door) to a Certified Pre-Owned 2011 LS460 AWD ($40K out the door) to a Certified Pre-Owned 2008 LS600hL ($42K out the door). I have been driving the LS600 for a month, and am sublimely happy with every aspect of this amazing car. The original sticker on it was $115K, and it is totally loaded (reclining rear seats, DVD system, Air-Ride Suspension, etc.).

I've always been a new car buyer, so it took a major change in mind-set to buy a 2008 car for that kind of money. However, now that I've had it for a short while, I can honestly say I couldn't care less that I didn't buy it new (of course, I couldn't have afforded it new). It has a 3-year full warranty, and I added another 3 year Lexus warranty on top of that at a cost of $2400. So I have a $115K huge luxury sedan with AWD, 438 HP, and 22 MPG that I can drive without fear of costly repairs for the next 6 years, all for nearly the exact same price as if I had bought the new 2014 ES350.

Again, I'm not knocking the ES350 in any way, but there really is no comparison between it and the LS600hL. With the ability to review the service history extensively via the MyLexus web site, and the fact that most of the LS600hL's I looked at were corporately owned and meticulously serviced, I really don't see much downside risk to this strategy.

Food for thought for all you ES350 lookers...

SW17LS

I certainly would hope not considering the LS600hL costs literally three times what an ES350 costs lol.

The issue for me is used vs new. I still would have taken the ES in your situation even in comparison with the LS. The LS is a much better car, but at the end of the day your LS is 6-7 years old. 3 years from now the ES will be 3 years old and in prime trading age, the LS will be 10 years old. I just don't want a car that old. Hell, I can't even bring myself to buy a 3 year old one.

rustytank

ES and LS is like night and day... LS costs twice that of an ES if not more. Pre-owned LS would be priced similar to a new ES. However, if you consider the mpg, cost to maintain(fluids, brake pads, tires, etc.), LS would cost you a lot more and Lexus is usually known for reliability but god forbid if anything breaks after warranty goes out, you'll be in for a hell of a ride...

riknchar

Yep, it took quite a change in philosophy to go this route. I've always bought (or leased) new cars, so I can totally relate to your perspective. And I'm not saying the route I took was the smartest, from a financial standpoint.

All I'm saying is that once you wrap your head around the overall quality, refinement, features, etc. of a top-of-the-line Lexus LS600hL flagship, it really doesn't matter that the odometer has a bigger number than you're used to while you're blissfully tooling down the road.

The original owner lost ~$75K in depreciation -- my loss can be no more than $42K even if the car is worthless in 6 years (which it obviously will not be). My only concern with owning/operating a $100K+ car is the potential for sky-high repair bills, but with the Lexus Certified Pre-Owned program, those fears are groundless.

Again, this approach is not for everyone, but you might be surprised how little you care that the car doesn't smell new after a couple of months of ownership, and for basically the same price, I'll take the used LS600hL over a new ES350 any day.

riknchar

That's my point exactly -- the differences are night and day, so why not take the better overall car if you remove repair costs from the equation (which is what happens with the Lexus Certified Pre-Owned Warranty). With an extended CPO warranty (which I bought for $2400), I can be assured of no major repair bills for 6 years/65,000 miles (actually better than a new car warranty).

On my particular LS600hL, the tires had just been replaced with top-of-the-line Michelins, the brakes had just been completely redone, and the car was fully serviced and ready to go, just like a new car.

A Lexus LS is the most reliable luxury car on the planet, and you really would have to drive one to fully appreciate the overall quality built into the car. Again, no knock on the ES350, just one person's experience that I thought would be fun to share. I can certainly understand the argument for a brand new ES350...

rustytank

CPO on 6 year old car? What am i missing here....?

LexRuger

Nothing can compensate for the peace of mind of buying brand new knowing the car has never been abused, accidents not reported, who knows what's happened in that backseat lol. The new car smell is nice too.

riknchar

Yes, Lexus can Certify a vehicle up to 6 model years old (2008 models for this year) with anything under 70,000 miles (after the vehicle passes their stringen 141 point inspection to ensure the vehicle is "as new").

The Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) warranty covers every mechanical item on the car, including (in the case of the LS600hL) the Air Ride Suspension ($2K per wheel to replace), the central touchscreen navigation/all-in-one unit ($7K to replace), the amazing Mark Levinson audio system (19 speakers), the Upper and Lower Control Arms (suspension items that can fail on LS cars at a cost of ~ $4K to replace).

You still have to make sure the car cosmetically suits you (i.e., has no dings, scratches, leather tears, etc.), because consmetic things aren't covered by CPO, but as I mentioned, most of the LS vehicles, especially the $115k LS600hLs, were owned by either corporations (for CEOs, etc.) or by VERY rich people who drove relatively low miles and pampered the cars. They have generally been meticulously maintained by Lexus (every 5K miles). Any any "bugs" have been well wrung out of the cars by the previous owner.

riknchar

I actually kind of like imagining what has happened in the back seat... with the "limo-like" space and the reclining seats, coupled with the fact the car was probably owned by a very rich guy with a "trophy wife," I can only imagine...

riknchar

I guess the analogy would be like buying a 100-year old, solidly built colonial home in a nice neighborhood vs a similarly priced cookie-cutter "McMansion" in a development that has sprung up in a cornfield... The new McMansion would make more financial sense (possibly) and would be easier to maintain, but the overall quality of the classic home could trump the new house in many distinctive ways...

There's obviously no right answer, but it's fun to debate the pros and cons of a used LS vs a new ES...

rustytank

This is new to me... I was actually looking into a CPO LS's recently and two dealers i went to told me there were no CPOs under 2011... And because of that i couldn't buy extended warranty from Lexus either...

lesz

While I think that there can be a good argument made for buying (some) CPO vehicles, you are mistaken if you think that the warranty you got with your CPO vehicle gives you nearly the same level of protection as does a new car warranty. First, it is not a "full" warranty. Instead, it is a limited warranty. Next, if you go through the list of items excluded from warranty coverage, you will find that it is quite extensive, and many of the excluded items are ones for which repairs can be quite expensive. Also, when the CPO inspection is done, there can be items with significant wear (up to 50%) that are not replaced/repaired, and they are items that are not covered by the limited warranty. Thus, there are many items that you will be paying to repair/replace much sooner than you would have to do with a new vehicle. Further, the 100,000 miles of CPO warranty coverage is 100,000 total miles on the vehicle. Thus, if the vehicle has 60,000 miles on it when you buy it, your warranty coverage is only for 40,000 miles. Finally, the CPO warranty is not a transferable warranty.

While I think that a good case can be made for some to buy a CPO vehicle and while the CPO warranty should give you some level of peace of mind, it simply is not that case that it is close to being as good as a new car warranty. I say all of this as someone who did, a number of years ago, buy a CPO vehicle. My CPO experience was very good, but I went into that purchase with the understanding that I was going to have, within the first couple of years of ownership, some (reasonably significant) expenses that I would not have had with a new vehicle.

SW17LS

The difference is that a home does not age the same way a car does. Homes can be renovated, added onto, modernized. Furnished, refurnished. A car really can't be...it's a tool that has a usable life. A home really has no limit to its usable life. Technology changes, your 2008's infotainment for instance is two generations old, no Bluetooth audio, etc etc.

I just don't want to drive an old car with outdated technology, regardless of how much better a car it may be at its core.

Lexusxoxo

Sorry your getting beat up by the ES crew but you are on a ES thread!
The LS is a gorgeous car.. I hope you enjoy it for many many years..