LexRuger

Never drove a previous gen MKZ but the new one has a very nice ride. A little stiffer than the ES and the steering is slightly heavier. But the interior quality of the ES is slightly better. I'd say about 75% of the interior pieces of the MKZ are exactly the same as the Fusion. All the auto mags complained about that.. But the ES looks nothing like the Camry or Avalon interior.

SW17LS

Until the Grandmas and Grandpas all die or get so old they stop driving and then where will they be? Sorry to be so blunt, but these companies are all working hard to appeal to a younger demographic. Hyundai has made multiple cars like that, the Azera, the XG, nobody bought them. Nobody wants a car like that anymore, sorry. You're beating a dead horse here. Smart businesses don't work to capture a rapidly disappearing market. Why do you think advertisers want the 18-45 demographic?

You have to get it through your skull that this is what the consumer wants. You can't fault a car company for building what the consumer wants. I have a brand new Lexus with 18" wheels, there is no high frequency road or tire noise, nor any tire noise of any kind. It rides just as silently as my old 2003 ES on 16's, or the old 98 LS my Dad used to have on 16s. Of course it rides a little firmer, which is fine. Lexus sales are UP not down, so obviously what they are doing is working, whether you want to buy them or not. Since every carmaker is moving this direction, thats the way the industry is trending.

I am 32...I drive a lot of highway miles...and I am not fatigued. My GS rides beautifully on the highway. "Necessary to wear ear plugs"?!?! Crazy.

gemigniani

Profitability. The automakers that have already captured a large market share want each vehicle they build to be as profitable as possible. And they know the way to do that is for ALL of them to collude in cutting costs (via downgraded interiors, seat size and padding thickness, sound insulation, etc) and ALL add in high profit content like fancy electronics and big tires and wheels. These automakers know many 18-45 year olds want all that electronic wizardry and high performance stuff and are willing to pay a premium price for it. And they also know that if ALL of them collude together to stop building ANY soft riding, quiet, plushly furnished and yet inexpensive (because no fancy electronics, wheels and tires) Buick LeSabre or Mercury Marquis type cars, the 46-80 year olds will be forced to buy the same sporty, expensive, hard riding and noisy sedans the 18-45 year olds are buying - unless and until, like I said, a particular automaker may decide to go rogue and build a Buick LeSabre or Mercury Marquis type car again.

So it will be interesting to see if sometime during the next 5 years any particular automaker may decide to buck the trend and introduce a Buick LeSabre or Mercury Marquis type car again. Possibly a company somewhat desperate to gain market share might do it. Like maybe Chrysler or Hyundai / Kia. Alternatively, maybe a chunk of the 46-80 year olds will simply buy a Camry or Fusion type car instead of an ES350 or MKZ as they gradually become aware that ride comfort, quietness, seat comfort and interior furnishings of a ES350 or MKZ are not substantially superior to a Camry or Fusion (hence not worth the 75-100% higher price).

SW17LS

I think you should call these manufacturers up and offer your services as a consultant.

And how is an ES or MKZ 75-100% more than an Avalon or Fusion? The difference is more like 10% when you compare them to fully loaded models.

LexBob2

Funny. Maybe then I'll be able to get that LeSabre or Grand Marquis I've been itchin' for.

SW17LS

I had a dream about it last night Bob, with whitewall tires, wire wheels AND a vinyl top! It'd be the bees knees!

LexBob2

Add in the gold trim package and you've got yourself a ride!!

amphipri0n

It's obviously a subjective measure, but I dislike the front and rear of the new MKZ. The kidney grill looks too flat from the front and 3/4 front angles. Although the headlamp design looks very sleek, and modern. I also appreciate how seamless they were able to make the bumper flow into the front of the car but unfortunately it adds to the overall impression of a front end that is tall and flat. Basically it reminds me of when owners put billet grills on their cars/trucks... visually just flattens everything out which isn't the impression I want of a car slicing through air.

The best angle is its side profile with the car's very thin front pillars and thick, swoopy but interesting C-pillars in back...

The rear design suffers similarly to the front thanks to a really high decklid with the integrated spoiler, it looks too tall and flat. (See picture 7 in the gallery http://www.lincoln.com/cars/mkz/gallery/photos/)

I think it's the best looking Lincoln sedan yet, but the new company grill now on all models (except the Navigator) is something that I don't think will ever grow on me.

SW17LS

Have you seen it in person? I was much more impressed in person than in pictures.

gemigniani

Some 2013 Avalon owners have also been taken aback by the harder, noisier ride and one owner traded in his 2013 for the old 2012 model!:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/31...13-2012-a.html
"I traded my 2013 Avalon in on a 2012. I will say, there are many things I will miss about the 2013, the tech package stuff for sure. But the size and the ride (I was looking for) goes to the 2012! The 2012 rides A LOT more comfortably, A LOT smooth, it's a bigger car and acts it. It's what Toyota calls a luxury sedan."

LexRuger

That should be expected when you try to broaden your demographic. Might lose some customers but will make up for it in the long run.

SW17LS

He better take good care of that 2012.

Exactly, they're trying to make more emotional cars, cars that are less vanilla. You're going to loose some of the customers who want a numb transportation device...but these aren't the customers they want anyways.

gemigniani

Consumer Reports tested the ES350 in their Jan 2013 issue and wrote: "Although the ES still rides well, it's no longer luxury car plush, feeling instead like a generic family sedan. At first glance the cabin materially look really good. But a closer inspection reveals some cheaper materials than in the past and the general impression of cost cutting. And despite Lexus's claim of injecting more sportiness into the ES, it's no more agile or fun to drive."

Then in another paragraph Consumer Reports wrote: "The previous ES had a silky smooth ride, but the new car lacks it's isolation. The ride isn't as tide down or cushy as we expect from a luxury sedan, especially with the optional 18 inch wheels."

And with regard to the interior materials Consumer Reports wrote: "The seats and dash are well finished. But some switches and plastic panels look cheap and out of place in an upscale sedan. The front seats are wide and accomodating, but the cushion loses support on long trips."

In summary Consumer Reports said the redesigned ES is "a less satisfying car."

Consumer Reports gave the ES350 an overall road test score of 80 vs 92 for the Hyundai Genesis. CR was also critical of the Cadillac XTS and Lincoln MKS and said: "Neither car has a true luxury-car ride. The MKS's suspension allows impacts to come through harshly [even when driving in Comfort mode]".

LexRuger

2 auto mags also stated that the 2013 MKZ seats were too hard. I test drove two of them and they were much softer than my 2010 Maxima was and almost as soft as my ES.

Car reviews should be taken as entertainment. I will never use their views/opinions on selecting a car.

ElliotB

"despite Lexus's claim of injecting more sportiness into the ES, it's no more agile or fun to drive" "The ride isn't as tide down or cushy as we expect from a luxury sedan"

CR seems to contradict themselves with these two statements. Lexus did inject more sportiness into the ES so its ride isn't as cushy. With regard to ride/handling, I prefer the '13 ES hands down over me previous '11 ES.

I don't think I will be trading my ES in for a Genesis any time soon in spite of the CR review!