Robdog1515

yeah, I don't think Lexus will buy back a car because of a subwoofer. if that’s the case then I have no choice but to have a pro install a proper sub and run the risk of having service issues to the warranty.

I'm torn, if I could just have an open line of conversation with Harman I would feel better, but they don't have a dept. for cases like this, we have to go through Lexus and they follow the typical pattern of help centers that takes for ever.

has anyone been able to diagnose the cause of the distortion definitively? is the sub over traveling, or clipping. if it’s over traveling is the sub hitting a component of the car that can be moved slightly to eleviate the issue?

I just hate constantly adjusting the bass and volume on ever other song, it’s a constant reminder.

txes

significantly affects the value or performance of the vehicle

Really?

John

Robdog1515

it depends on what you see as value, and if you can assign a large enough number to the issue.

if you had the choice between two identical ES350's, one had distortion and the other didn't which one would you buy? the one without the distortion of course. if a lot had 50 non distorting es350's and one distorting how much less would they have to sell that one distorting car if the buyer knew about the distortion?

the answer is based on opinion and is different from one person to the next. The question is, is it significant? There is more to it than the price of an aftermarket sub and amp. Warranty issues could result in huge out of pocket expenses. (tho the probability of that happening is low) its possible.

txes

Since I'm always shaking my head at the gangsta next to me at the light wth the blaring
bass heavy stereo, +30 is about my volume level to enjoy my music.

John

ElliotB

"the one without the distortion of course" If the cars had identical radios your argument would make some sense. Since the ML sounds significantly better than the stock premium sound system, the car with the ML would win out every time over the stock system even with the distortion issue. even if you turn the bass down so that the distortion problem disappears (-1 or -2 for the bass will typically take care of it), the ML system would still sound way better than the premium system.

"it depends on what you see as value, and if you can assign a large enough number to the issue. " I don't think you get to set the value.

The truth of the matter is that the distortion issue is intermittent depending on the song, station, audio sources, volume and audio settings. Yes, it is easy to accentuate the problem through the setting but it is also easy to alleviate much of the problem through settings as well. I would have to say that in my case, 95% of my normal listening is unaffected by the problem and I have the bass at its maximum setting. Again, I am not saying the situation is acceptable, but I certainly would not get rid of my car over it!

Music4ever

Robdog I am with you, and have filed my paper work on Monday as a lemon defect. I do agree it is a nice ride, but what people do not realize when you start changing subs, amps your warranty is gone and if you have any issue they can related to the mods. I agree it is not the money it's the implications of warranty with Lexus. This thread is for people with the thumping or distortion noise not people with volumes at 30 and have no issues. I like my music loud. For me it is 80% of the music I listen to.

ElliotB

"I like my music loud" Me too! I generally drive alone in car with my volume typically in the 40 to 45 range. There are select songs that won't play clearly at 35 (with regard to bass) and there are others that are excellent at 55.


Music4ever and Robdog1515, how do you have your bass, mid, treble and balance set and what typically is your music source?

Music4ever

Elliott, I typically have my bass at mid point or zero most times it has to be at minus three to sound half decent , mid is at zero, treble zero to minus two depending on the song, my source of music is CD's or iTunes.

ElliotB

I have my bass, treble and mid-tones all on full, with the front rear balance it all the way to the front and the left right balance slightly to the right. After a lot of experimentation, I find this works best for me as far as getting sufficient overall volume with the most bass and the least amount of distortion. I find it also enhances the overall sound so I get the most out of the system.

Robdog1515

I have my treb all the way up on SAT b/c the sound from that source sucks. HD radio and everything else I have the treb at +3, mids and +3, Bass at +1.

I have been messing around with the balance, I find that pushing the music focus slightly behind me and setting the bass to 0 or +1 fills the car well. however even at volume 38 with those settings listening to a film score like the gladiator main theme, it distorts like mother F@#$er.

my motive behind using the lemon law is simple. "light a fire (not literally) under the issue" to get movement. "The one that cries the loudest gets fed first."

"the sqweeky wheel gets the greese first. "

I don't think I will win the case, but at least I will bring attention to the issue. this helps us all.

Music4ever

Robdog your absolutely correct and that is why I filled it as well, I have nothing to lose and maybe everything to gain. I did ask my company lawyer and he said it is a 50/50 chance if I can prove a defect even if it is a subwoofer or stereo and they cannot fix it I could have a very good case. If everyone not satisfied did the same thing, the case can be stronger. All we can do is try and you never know

calm

To Robdog1515 and Music4ever:

How did you get the dealer to document this issue for the various times you have visited?

I ask as I have doubts that my dealer is documenting this continuing issue as the last service paperwork that I received mentioned nothing about it despite me discussing it with the service writer. My weekly calls asking about progress or a TSB being issued are also probably undocumented.

I am very close to following you down the a lemon law path as I don't see any other recourse.

Have you had to solicit any third party diagnostics to "certify" via measurement that the distortion you are reporting is valid?

Lastly, if you don't mind me asking, are either of you leasing the vehicle? I wonder if leasing hurts the "value" argument.

Just curious and thanks.

Robdog1515

my dealer has been keeping good notes on my account. the first time I went in was to have the distortion noted. second time was to have the amp replaced. both times are reflected in my official records with Lexus. In order to move forward with a lemon law case we will need to have 4 documented cases of failed repair. so I think I need three more. three more amp replacements, or speaker replacements.

Has anyone removed the back seat and pulled up the rear deck to see the speaker? I wonder, if you remove the hardware on top, and remove the plastic protector on the bottom, then play a track with heavy bass, does it still distort? I am not a pro audio guy, so I can't tell the difference between clipping, and over travel, but it is possible to make a similar sound by having the speaker hit a structural element of the upper deck?

Sonnie, you are the only one I know that has had their ES350 taken apart. do you know the answer to the above? this would be an interesting experiment to have Lexus perform in their shop.

I own my Lexus, not leasing.

call Lexus corporate in Torrance CA at the 1 800 number that was listed in one of the previous pages (11 or 12) and have them pull your records based on your VIN #, they will tell you what was noted. I guess you can have your dealer amend your service notes.

Good luck. now, if we do win our lemon law cases. what the Heck are we going to buy/lease? it took me forever to decide on the ES350. here we go again.

Rob

Music4ever

I have received an invoice for all 7 times I have gone in, on different dates. With the same response. I also have e- mails to Lexus. I have all my I's dotted and t's crossed. It is to bad like Robdog it took me a while to pick this vehicle.
If we do win, I might go back to Audi or they may actually wake up and put a better sub that would be much easier than looking for another Vehicle. Nothing is wrong with the Amp the sub bottoms out. I am very disappointed in Harman they really have done nothing.

bobsobi

You guys have really whipped yourselves into a frenzy.

Lemon law? Really? Good luck with that. No one's ever had major difficulty getting from Point A to Point B because of an audio system!

You should be focusing your ire and effort on Lexus corporate, and demand reimbursement for the $$ you spent on the ML. Get Lexus to cut you a check (the language they really understand), and I bet it'll take quite a bit of the sting out of the disappointment you're feeling.

Then if you truly can't make peace with your POS ML, take those reclaimed $$ and equip your ride with some righteous sound.