Current ES Generation Question
09-04-12, 04:17 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Not at all, this car has TONS of upgrades over the previous car, its bigger, more refined, way more options and features. Has a hybrid option for the first time. You act as if the only measure of a car is the number on the trunk and the theoretical horesepower figure in the brochure. That might be a big deal in a Mustang, or a BMW 3 series convertible, but ESPECIALLY for this car 99% of buyers won't even realize the engine isn't 100% brand new. I would say 9.8/10 ES owners don't even know how many HP their ES has, or even how many cylinders it has.
Look at BMW, 330 and 530 models went to 328 and 528 again, they went from a 6 to a 4. The size and output of the motor are not the only considerations when it comes to upgrading a model, and for a car like the ES its not even a moderate to major consideration. It gets better fuel economy...takes regular gas...its competitive amongst its peers when it comes to power...these are things that wow ES buyers.
if the first thing you look at is engine and HP figures...or if its even the 10th thing you look at, this is not the right car for you. This is not a vehicle for people that are driving enthusiasts. Its for people who want to float down the highway in comfort, luxury and style, without having to stop saving for retirement...which is coming in a couple years...or has even already come.
Look at BMW, 330 and 530 models went to 328 and 528 again, they went from a 6 to a 4. The size and output of the motor are not the only considerations when it comes to upgrading a model, and for a car like the ES its not even a moderate to major consideration. It gets better fuel economy...takes regular gas...its competitive amongst its peers when it comes to power...these are things that wow ES buyers.
if the first thing you look at is engine and HP figures...or if its even the 10th thing you look at, this is not the right car for you. This is not a vehicle for people that are driving enthusiasts. Its for people who want to float down the highway in comfort, luxury and style, without having to stop saving for retirement...which is coming in a couple years...or has even already come.
Last edited by SW17LS; 09-04-12 at 04:21 PM.
09-04-12, 04:25 PM
#17
Not at all, this car has TONS of upgrades over the previous car, its bigger, more refined, way more options and features. Has a hybrid option for the first time. You act as if the only measure of a car is the number on the trunk and the theoretical horesepower figure in the brochure. That might be a big deal in a Mustang, or a BMW 3 series convertible, but ESPECIALLY for this car 99% of buyers won't even realize the engine isn't 100% brand new. I would say 9.8/10 ES owners don't even know how many HP their ES has, or even how many cylinders it has.
Look at BMW, 330 and 530 models went to 328 and 528 again, they went from a 6 to a 4. The size and output of the motor are not the only considerations when it comes to upgrading a model, and for a car like the ES its not even a moderate to major consideration. It gets better fuel economy...takes regular gas...its competitive amongst its peers when it comes to power...these are things that wow ES buyers.
if the first thing you look at is engine and HP figures...or if its even the 10th thing you look at, this is not the right car for you. This is not a vehicle for people that are driving enthusiasts.
Look at BMW, 330 and 530 models went to 328 and 528 again, they went from a 6 to a 4. The size and output of the motor are not the only considerations when it comes to upgrading a model, and for a car like the ES its not even a moderate to major consideration. It gets better fuel economy...takes regular gas...its competitive amongst its peers when it comes to power...these are things that wow ES buyers.
if the first thing you look at is engine and HP figures...or if its even the 10th thing you look at, this is not the right car for you. This is not a vehicle for people that are driving enthusiasts.
people want. Thats what I'm saying. Nothing stays the same for long. Boredom
is dangerous for marketing.
09-04-12, 04:30 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
You have a choice now with the ES, you have the ES350 and the ES300h. Obviously they believe that performance is not the paramount consideration for an ES buyer, which is why the ESh is not a performance hybrid like the GS, but an economy hybrid like the Camry. Hence why they charge MORE for a model with LESS performance.
How can you say you're bored with the new ES with all of the huge changes and upgrades over the previous car? Because the number on the trunk is the same, and the hp is the same the fact that...nothing else is the same, including even the platform the vehicle is built on is somehow meaningless?!? That may be a valid point on the GS or IS...but if thats a concern for you on the ES you aren't the buyer Lexus is looking for.
How can you say you're bored with the new ES with all of the huge changes and upgrades over the previous car? Because the number on the trunk is the same, and the hp is the same the fact that...nothing else is the same, including even the platform the vehicle is built on is somehow meaningless?!? That may be a valid point on the GS or IS...but if thats a concern for you on the ES you aren't the buyer Lexus is looking for.
09-04-12, 04:33 PM
#19
You have a choice now with the ES, you have the ES350 and the ES300h. Obviously they believe that performance is not the paramount consideration for an ES buyer, which is why the ESh is not a performance hybrid like the GS, but an economy hybrid like the Camry. Hence why they charge MORE for a model with LESS performance.
How can you say you're bored with the new ES with all of the huge changes and upgrades over the previous car? Because the number on the trunk is the same, and the hp is the same the fact that...nothing else is the same, including even the platform the vehicle is built on is somehow meaningless?!? That may be a valid point on the GS or IS...but if thats a concern for you on the ES you aren't the buyer Lexus is looking for.
How can you say you're bored with the new ES with all of the huge changes and upgrades over the previous car? Because the number on the trunk is the same, and the hp is the same the fact that...nothing else is the same, including even the platform the vehicle is built on is somehow meaningless?!? That may be a valid point on the GS or IS...but if thats a concern for you on the ES you aren't the buyer Lexus is looking for.
You stated the car needed no more engine changes with
increased HP. I say that will lead the Market to be bored
and therefore decreased sales...
09-04-12, 04:34 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
From Lexus standpoint, if consumers want more choices in their sedans, they offer IS250 and 350 both in RWD and AWD. Want to spend more? GS350 in RWD or AWD. More? LS in RWD and AWD. It seems to me that if you want more performance, better handling, more luxury etc. there is an offering for it.
With the ES being an entry level sedan there will always be some separation between it and the other upper end Lexus sedans.
With the ES being an entry level sedan there will always be some separation between it and the other upper end Lexus sedans.
09-04-12, 04:46 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
My point is...the market for the ES doesn't care about HP figures...so keeping them the same isn't going to effect its sales. I've been an ES owner for 10 years, this is my second ES. This ES is much more powerful than my previous ES...and it was not even a consideration when I traded. I just don't care.
Bear in mind Lexus actually REDUCED the hp figures on the ES from 2010-2011 so they could run regular fuel. What did ES owners say? "yay, now we can run regular fuel!"...that is...the .02% of owners who even noticed the change.
Bear in mind Lexus actually REDUCED the hp figures on the ES from 2010-2011 so they could run regular fuel. What did ES owners say? "yay, now we can run regular fuel!"...that is...the .02% of owners who even noticed the change.
09-04-12, 05:16 PM
#22
My point is...the market for the ES doesn't care about HP figures...so keeping them the same isn't going to effect its sales. I've been an ES owner for 10 years, this is my second ES. This ES is much more powerful than my previous ES...and it was not even a consideration when I traded. I just don't care.
Bear in mind Lexus actually REDUCED the hp figures on the ES from 2010-2011 so they could run regular fuel. What did ES owners say? "yay, now we can run regular fuel!"...that is...the .02% of owners who even noticed the change.
Bear in mind Lexus actually REDUCED the hp figures on the ES from 2010-2011 so they could run regular fuel. What did ES owners say? "yay, now we can run regular fuel!"...that is...the .02% of owners who even noticed the change.
with the ES has been great that way. I have had four. I am looking
hard at the ES as our future looks grim and going with an ES may be an
option
Enjoyed the discussion..
09-05-12, 08:32 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
The ES350 will not get a new size engine, the next steps for the engines will be an 8 speed transmission followed by a direct injection upgrade. The goal will be more MPG and nit power or performance.
09-08-12, 03:49 AM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
There are limits to FWD and power gains...
When accelerating hard the weight transfers to the rear which unweights the front wheels and reduces traction. Wheel hop and torque steer are other negative consequences. The under steer or plowing effect is encountered when entering a corner with too much speed. The larger the scale of the car and the more power provided at the front the more pronounced the effects.
Lexus has mitigated a lot of these attributes in their 2013 ES sedans by adding more weld points to stiffen the larger chassis and liberal use of the more expensive high tensile strength steel. The drive feel is excellent and would give me confidence on our ever changing highways. Braking is calm and collected. The new ES is quiet at speed due to its subtle airflow management from the mirrors to the tail lights.
It is not lacking in power or torque so a larger displacement would only increase fuel consumption.
With the new mileage mandates you will see more electric motors in the future and less liters under the hood.
Rock
Lexus has mitigated a lot of these attributes in their 2013 ES sedans by adding more weld points to stiffen the larger chassis and liberal use of the more expensive high tensile strength steel. The drive feel is excellent and would give me confidence on our ever changing highways. Braking is calm and collected. The new ES is quiet at speed due to its subtle airflow management from the mirrors to the tail lights.
It is not lacking in power or torque so a larger displacement would only increase fuel consumption.
With the new mileage mandates you will see more electric motors in the future and less liters under the hood.
Rock
09-09-12, 03:14 PM
#25
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When accelerating hard the weight transfers to the rear which unweights the front wheels and reduces traction. Wheel hop and torque steer are other negative consequences. The under steer or plowing effect is encountered when entering a corner with too much speed. The larger the scale of the car and the more power provided at the front the more pronounced the effects.
Lexus has mitigated a lot of these attributes in their 2013 ES sedans by adding more weld points to stiffen the larger chassis and liberal use of the more expensive high tensile strength steel. The drive feel is excellent and would give me confidence on our ever changing highways. Braking is calm and collected. The new ES is quiet at speed due to its subtle airflow management from the mirrors to the tail lights.
It is not lacking in power or torque so a larger displacement would only increase fuel consumption.
With the new mileage mandates you will see more electric motors in the future and less liters under the hood.
Rock
Lexus has mitigated a lot of these attributes in their 2013 ES sedans by adding more weld points to stiffen the larger chassis and liberal use of the more expensive high tensile strength steel. The drive feel is excellent and would give me confidence on our ever changing highways. Braking is calm and collected. The new ES is quiet at speed due to its subtle airflow management from the mirrors to the tail lights.
It is not lacking in power or torque so a larger displacement would only increase fuel consumption.
With the new mileage mandates you will see more electric motors in the future and less liters under the hood.
Rock
The GS is there for those who want more performance in a larger sedan.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Neoxagon
Hybrid Technology
6
04-30-13 08:00 PM
kreativ
ES - 1st to 4th Gen (1990-2006)
1
02-27-02 06:03 PM
