What the 2013 ES looks like next to a 2013 GS
10-03-12, 07:03 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
A Nav/luxury/premium ES is $43,700, a AWD GS with nav/premium is $55,685. These are pretty similar cars feature wise. So, thats a spread of about $12k. Now, you can get $4k or so off of a GS right now, ES $1k maybe $2k depending on where you are. Essentially the GS will cost you $10k more. If you're in a market where you don't need/want AWD...that difference is only $7k.
That $10k or $7k gets you a lot more than just interior quality upgrades in the GS, it gets you AWD or RWD, which is a huge upgrade from FWD. It gets you a more sophisticated suspension, more power, exterior quality and trim upgrades, its significant. Its more than just "slightly better handling", the GS is a true drivers car. That wasn't really the case in generations past, the interior quality differences were less pronounced in the last couple generations, and the GS was not really a great handling car on top of that, but all you have to do is go drive a new GS to know its the real deal. They are very different vehicles, but to say that the ES is a better "value" isn't really an accurate statement. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and if you are a buyer who wants a sport sedan...the ES is a terrible value and the GS is a great value compared to the 5 series and E Class.
I'm obviously an ES driver, but to deny that the GS is more car...and to deny that its worth a higher price tag is simply not being objective
That $10k or $7k gets you a lot more than just interior quality upgrades in the GS, it gets you AWD or RWD, which is a huge upgrade from FWD. It gets you a more sophisticated suspension, more power, exterior quality and trim upgrades, its significant. Its more than just "slightly better handling", the GS is a true drivers car. That wasn't really the case in generations past, the interior quality differences were less pronounced in the last couple generations, and the GS was not really a great handling car on top of that, but all you have to do is go drive a new GS to know its the real deal. They are very different vehicles, but to say that the ES is a better "value" isn't really an accurate statement. Value is in the eye of the beholder, and if you are a buyer who wants a sport sedan...the ES is a terrible value and the GS is a great value compared to the 5 series and E Class.
I'm obviously an ES driver, but to deny that the GS is more car...and to deny that its worth a higher price tag is simply not being objective
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-03-12 at 07:08 AM.
10-03-12, 08:42 AM
#32
The GS also comes with some intangibles: more prestige-- not considered "entry-level" luxury and exclusivity-- Lexus sold less than 150,000 of the previous generation GS whereas comparable ES sales over the last 5 years are in the 400,000-470,000 range. (as a comparison, I think they sell that many Camrys in a single year!)
Is the ES a better value than the GS? It's hard to make this comparison since they are competing in different price ranges. For me, the ES is the best value compared to other models in the same segment from Acura, Infiniti, BMW, or MB. The GS... not as clear cut when compared to recent actual sales prices of the 2012 535i , which I think edges out in "bang for the buck" as well as perceived recognition. Obviously, a big factor in the pricing is the fact that the GS is brand new this year, while the current 535 (F10) was released almost 3 years ago... This will likely change in the following years.
But back to the hardware, you will find standard equipment never offered in the ES, bi-xenon headlights, electric parking brake (wish the ES had this), and little things like better seat cooling, the fact that the defrost vents for the windows are actually channeled through the doors, etc. all of which makes a direct comparison of the ES and GS even more difficult.
I have considered the GS, since I'm looking at about spending $50k for the ES, it's within the GSs' territory. In a nutshell, Pros: better technology, not as common, higher grade materials, more power, nicer looking rear (in that order). Cons: sporty ride, less rear passenger and trunk space, interior dash design, exterior front design (reminds me of an Accord
)
Overall, the ES' softer and quieter ride, front end and interior dash design trump everything else that would draw me to the GS...
Is the ES a better value than the GS? It's hard to make this comparison since they are competing in different price ranges. For me, the ES is the best value compared to other models in the same segment from Acura, Infiniti, BMW, or MB. The GS... not as clear cut when compared to recent actual sales prices of the 2012 535i , which I think edges out in "bang for the buck" as well as perceived recognition. Obviously, a big factor in the pricing is the fact that the GS is brand new this year, while the current 535 (F10) was released almost 3 years ago... This will likely change in the following years.
But back to the hardware, you will find standard equipment never offered in the ES, bi-xenon headlights, electric parking brake (wish the ES had this), and little things like better seat cooling, the fact that the defrost vents for the windows are actually channeled through the doors, etc. all of which makes a direct comparison of the ES and GS even more difficult.
I have considered the GS, since I'm looking at about spending $50k for the ES, it's within the GSs' territory. In a nutshell, Pros: better technology, not as common, higher grade materials, more power, nicer looking rear (in that order). Cons: sporty ride, less rear passenger and trunk space, interior dash design, exterior front design (reminds me of an Accord
) Overall, the ES' softer and quieter ride, front end and interior dash design trump everything else that would draw me to the GS...
10-03-12, 08:52 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Right, the ES is everywhere...the GS is pretty rare. Another thing around here, the E and 5 series are everywhere...whereas the GS is pretty rare.
I'm really torn about what to do next time. I like a lot about the new ES, but there are a lot of things I don't like too. I don't like the decision to remove all of the chrome trim from the exterior. For some reason the ES looks stark and unadorned to me...but the GS doesn't...even though the GS doesn't have any trim the ES doesn't have. Maybe I feel like the body color look fits more with the GS' character. I like the dash on the ES, but I hate the materials and design of the door panels, and hate that they elected to remove all the wood trim from the console, and the setup of the ES' upholders. I think the GS has an overall better looking interior, although I like the layout of the ES dash more (other than the GS's great screen). I hate the matte trim on the premium GS, and the fact that you have to settle for an all leather steering wheel. I love the dark wood trim on the luxury GS as well as the wood/leather wheel, but forking over another $5k for that package when all it has I'd really want is the trim seems stupid.
From a visual standpoint, I've decided I think I like the GS more, but its very cramped in the back compared to the ES, and I much prefer the smooth and quiet way the ES drives.
Its had me looking outside Lexus, nothing else in the ES' price point does anything for me, so I've looked at the 5 series which I like but equipped similarly its $7k more than the GS. I like the exterior of the E Class but not the drive or interior. I liked the A6 also.
Not sure what I'll do...I've thought about getting a CPO LS...but I wouldn't be able to lease...and the GS/E/5 are really more than I want to spend. I may just buy my 2010...
I'm really torn about what to do next time. I like a lot about the new ES, but there are a lot of things I don't like too. I don't like the decision to remove all of the chrome trim from the exterior. For some reason the ES looks stark and unadorned to me...but the GS doesn't...even though the GS doesn't have any trim the ES doesn't have. Maybe I feel like the body color look fits more with the GS' character. I like the dash on the ES, but I hate the materials and design of the door panels, and hate that they elected to remove all the wood trim from the console, and the setup of the ES' upholders. I think the GS has an overall better looking interior, although I like the layout of the ES dash more (other than the GS's great screen). I hate the matte trim on the premium GS, and the fact that you have to settle for an all leather steering wheel. I love the dark wood trim on the luxury GS as well as the wood/leather wheel, but forking over another $5k for that package when all it has I'd really want is the trim seems stupid.
From a visual standpoint, I've decided I think I like the GS more, but its very cramped in the back compared to the ES, and I much prefer the smooth and quiet way the ES drives.
Its had me looking outside Lexus, nothing else in the ES' price point does anything for me, so I've looked at the 5 series which I like but equipped similarly its $7k more than the GS. I like the exterior of the E Class but not the drive or interior. I liked the A6 also.
Not sure what I'll do...I've thought about getting a CPO LS...but I wouldn't be able to lease...and the GS/E/5 are really more than I want to spend. I may just buy my 2010...
Last edited by SW17LS; 10-03-12 at 08:56 AM.
10-03-12, 09:28 PM
#35
Pole Position
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlington TX
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd rather have a 2013 BMW328i than a GS350. Go test drive them and decide for yourself! Keep an eye for big December incentives...
10-03-12, 09:41 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Have you driven the new GS? Completely different animal than to previous GS. The 3 series is way too small...
The 5 series seems numb compared to the new GS..
The 5 series seems numb compared to the new GS..
10-03-12, 09:55 PM
#37
Somehow this thread has gotten waaaay off track. It was posted to visually show us the differences between the new GS and the ES. Nothing more. We commented on the similarities and pointed out the styling differences.
This thread has now turned into a narrative trying to compare the missions of both vehicles. They may look alike, but trying to compare them is a futile exercise. Like trying to compare a cruser bicycle to a racing bike. They are different cars meant for different people and will satisfy those people in different ways. Both are tops in their class, but a totally different class. I luv my F, my wife luvs her ES. Different cars for different people!
Lou
This thread has now turned into a narrative trying to compare the missions of both vehicles. They may look alike, but trying to compare them is a futile exercise. Like trying to compare a cruser bicycle to a racing bike. They are different cars meant for different people and will satisfy those people in different ways. Both are tops in their class, but a totally different class. I luv my F, my wife luvs her ES. Different cars for different people!
Lou
10-04-12, 08:06 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Just a friendly discussion...
10-14-12, 07:24 AM
#39
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: FL
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said in the thread above SW10ES & Amphipri0n. Thanks for touching on those differences. Greatly appreciate the side by side as well lowrideraz.
I did the same comparison at my local dealership which pulled me towards the ES for one primary reason. It appeared to me that the ES was more substantial in size (not aggressive, but substantial). Definite trade off in interior quality/features and overall drive feel (rear wheel sport vs front wheel lux), but after driving a Supra (miss her) and then a G for quite some time I am being told by my wife that "it's time for me to grow up a bit and prep for kids."
Another concern with the 2013 GS was that nearly every time I saw one (white, silver, etc) approaching from a distance on the road, I struggled to determine if it was an IS or GS (until I was right on top of it). I also found myself losing them in traffic when approaching from behind as I strained to identify the GS badging. Maybe it was just me or maybe just took a little more time to get used to the differences, but it happen quite a few times.
That said, love them both and would be proud to drive both (for different reasons), but when considering value, necessity, cost and how good they both look I have decided on the ES. Now, I just have to determine Luxury or Ultra-Lux. Counting down the days until January...
I did the same comparison at my local dealership which pulled me towards the ES for one primary reason. It appeared to me that the ES was more substantial in size (not aggressive, but substantial). Definite trade off in interior quality/features and overall drive feel (rear wheel sport vs front wheel lux), but after driving a Supra (miss her) and then a G for quite some time I am being told by my wife that "it's time for me to grow up a bit and prep for kids."
Another concern with the 2013 GS was that nearly every time I saw one (white, silver, etc) approaching from a distance on the road, I struggled to determine if it was an IS or GS (until I was right on top of it). I also found myself losing them in traffic when approaching from behind as I strained to identify the GS badging. Maybe it was just me or maybe just took a little more time to get used to the differences, but it happen quite a few times.
That said, love them both and would be proud to drive both (for different reasons), but when considering value, necessity, cost and how good they both look I have decided on the ES. Now, I just have to determine Luxury or Ultra-Lux. Counting down the days until January...
10-14-12, 10:48 AM
#40
but after driving a Supra (miss her) and then a G for quite some time I am being told by my wife that "it's time for me to grow up a bit and prep for kids."
That said, love them both and would be proud to drive both (for different reasons), but when considering value, necessity, cost and how good they both look I have decided on the ES. Now, I just have to determine Luxury or Ultra-Lux. Counting down the days until January...
That said, love them both and would be proud to drive both (for different reasons), but when considering value, necessity, cost and how good they both look I have decided on the ES. Now, I just have to determine Luxury or Ultra-Lux. Counting down the days until January...
Lou
10-14-12, 01:33 PM
#41
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have driven Supra's and Gs, IMHO, you will come to hate an ES. Please ES fans, don't take offense here, as I have said previously, the ES is a great car, but it's not for me. My two previous rides prior to my F, were a Lexus SC300 5MT and a G35 Coupe 6MT. Within the last year I drove my wife's ES to Las Vegas, and hated it. IMHO, no handling precision. Luckily, for me, my wife never told me to grow up, and at 73, I don't intend to. From my first car, a 1950 Mercury Coupe, through a Boss Mustang, a couple of GTOs, a TransAm, a Porsche 944 and etc, all my cars have been modified hi-performance rear drivers. The F is my first automatic. To put me into a softly sprung front driver would be torture.
Lou
Lou
10-14-12, 04:58 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
There's nothing wrong with what he said IMHO, very fair and honest advice to the poster.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Blackraven
ES - 6th Gen (2013-2018)
14
11-11-13 05:48 PM
