Opex

I just registered on this forum to share my story and possibly get some advice from the experts.

Recently I became a proud owner of certified 2011 Lexus ES 350. I and my wife were very excited about this purchase but our joy has not lasted long. Here is how it went

We started looking for 2011 pre-owned ES 350 with 2 main requirements in mind - it had to be CPO vehicle and it must have clean Carfax without any prior accidents. My wife also had some color preferences as well. We ended up buying a car that met those requirements from out-of-state dealer (Lexus A) located about 80 miles away from our house. The car had 46K miles with NAV package and was Tungsten Pearl with black interior. I liked the fact that CARFAX had no accident/damage reported and had 13 service records available and listed the car as +$950 above retail book value. Based on the service records the car was regularly brought to Lexus dealer for scheduled maintenance and oil change (at least every 5,000 miles). There were few minor repairs done and once one tire was replaced. Overall we were satisfied with car conditions outside and inside.

Few weeks after purchasing the car I found Lexus Drivers portal and registered there. Then I discovered Service History icon and started browsing the service records. For the most part they matched with what I have already seen in CARFAX report until I came to these 2 lines:

• Dealer Reported 11/07/2012 Lexus B 19366 0612952 SUPPLEMENT 1854.87.
• Dealer Reported 10/31/2012 Lexus B 19366 0611571 TOW IN RIGHT FRONT DAMAGE 6240.73 PLUS SUPPLEMENT 1028.01 TOTAL 7268.74.

I was literally in shock. The “clean CARFAX” car we purchased in reality sustained major accident with significant damage (over $9000 or about 30% of car value). For a few days I didn’t even know how to share my findings with my wife.

It was strange that CARFAX had every single service record from Lexus B dealer except these two. These two records were miraculously missing from CARFAX. When comparing service records closely I also found that on the day when CARFAX reported “One tire mounted and balanced” the real history contained few more details

• INSTALLED NEW RIM AND TIRE. REMOVED TIRE SENSOR FROM BENT RIM AND INSTALLED IN NEW RIM
• REPLACED DAMAGED TRANSMISSION PAN AND REFILLED FLUID

Conveniently these two details were omitted from CARFAX. It appears that those records that indicate serious damages and repairs deliberately do not get reported to CARFAX.

So what should I do now? I really feel that fraud was committed by both Lexus A and Lexus B dealers:

1. Lexus B with or without intend did not report major accident/damage to CARFAX
2. Lexus A certified a car that has sustained a significant damage (about 30% of car value). I am not sure whether or not this meets Lexus standards.
3. Lexus A failed to disclose that “clean CARFAX” car they sell was involved in major accident

I would really prefer to have the Lexus buy back this car or replace it with equal car but without prior accidents, but I don’t know how much legal grounds I have to stand on.

If I have to keep it I am concern that defects from prior accidents will eventually show up or even my CPO warranty might be voided if replaced/repaired parts were to fail. At the minimum the car value has been diminished because of these accidents.

I would appreciate any suggestions or experiences with this type of issues. I also hope that some folks will learn from my story not to trust “clean CARFAX” history and be more vigilant when buying pre-own car even when it is certified and the seller is Lexus dealer.

dreyfus

I don't know about your options and I think fraud was likely in hiding the damage. However, your CPO warranty stands no matter what. It IS warrantied as a CPO vehicle and Lexus has to honor that.

I wouldn't worry about this affecting the car, either, though I would keep a watchful eye on it. It will definitely impact your resale value.

Getting a replacement from Lexus is going to be difficult, I'd think. But you might be able to negotiate a free service or other goodwill gesture on their part.

xanderES

iTrader: (8)

You sir are quite lucky. Had it not been repaired and notated by a dealership you would be out of luck. As the dealership would of just blamed you for crashing the car and repairing it yourself.
The fact that damage was not reported on a carfax is because if the police arnt involved and submit a report it will not be indexed by companies like carfax. Insurance companies do not need to report nor do dealerships.

There are quite a few options at this point. The one with the highest percentage of rectifying the issue is speaking directly to the general manager of the dealership you bought the car from. Fact of the matter is that the car should of never been able to be certified if more than 1 panel was replaced and 4 panels were repainted. Since you have undeniable proof of repairs directly from a dealer I would ask for a buy-back. Option 2 is that they will remove any records of damage.
Option 2: (Be aware that you should try with the GM before escalating the issue) Reporting the dealership to multiple federal agencies and Lexus HQ. Lexus HQ - 1-800-255-3987 you will most likely be contacted by a customer satisfaction manager. You can also go with the new motor vehicle board http://www.nmvb.ca.gov/ mediation/complaint form - they will directly mail your complaint word for word to the dealership. You can also report them to the DMV which overlooks dealerships - they will do their own investigation.
Option 3: Sue the dealership for basically the price you paid for the car. You are only able to do this because of that dealer record. Although this is an option it will likely be resolved before with the above. You will need to consult a lemon law/automotive lawyer in your state.

Opex

xanderES, thanks for your suggestions.

I am wondering where you got these specific requirements "more than 1 panel was replaced and 4 panels were repainted" to disqualify a car from being certified.

I talked to Service Manager at my local dealership (Dealer C) where I brought my car for state inspection about this issue. He was very courteous when talking to me and he explained that any accident does not automatically prevent a car from being certified and the only quantifiable element that disqualify certification is frame damage. They also inspected my car and confirmed that it was repaired and certain panels were repainted (paint overspray marks) but could not tell me exactly what and how many panels were replaced.

Also, the motor vehicle board website you provided is for California. I live in PA, the car was purchased in NJ and Lexus dealership that performed repairs is in CT.

I will probably start with contacting GM at dealership that sold me the car. But I feel that Lexus as a corporation is at fault - one dealer failed to report major damages to CARFAX, another dealer certified a car that shouldn't be certified and sold it without disclosure of significant damages.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

According to post #4 in this thread,a Lexus rep says up to 3 panels can be painted on a CPO vehicle.Then post #7 a rep says 4.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ct-...ml#post8555230

xanderES

iTrader: (8)

Sorry! In my excitement to help you out with the information I gathered in the last 10 months I forgot to look at your state. I got the information because I spoke to the used car manager at the dealership who I bought my car from. It was confirmed when I spoke to a service consultant at a dealership I have good relations with also. I had to self learn all the information after the dealership ruined the whole exterior and part of the motor when they sent it to a contracted 3rd party shop. On top of that I found part of the crash structure in the rear had been replaced. I just got my car bought back on friday in what was described to me as the biggest snafu by the dealership in the GM's tenure of 8 years.

You should speak to a lawyer specializing in car laws (lemon law) in your state and see what they are legally obligated to disclose during sale, look into any federal mediation services like nmvb in california, file a complaint with your states board of consumer affairs, or anyone else that you can.