SW17LS

If I had been able to easily get a RWD GS I would have over the AWD because like you I also have an SUV, and I don't NEED the GS to be drivable in the snow.

Not to further argue with you, because we do have our preferences but just to keep information for people out there searching complete. I could get behind what you were saying if you preferred FWD to RWD. Many people out there have really only owned FWD cars, so that wouldn't surprise me. The issue is preferring FWD to AWD when you state your preference is RWD over FWD.

The compromise to the handling characteristics of an AWD car such as Lexus AWD sedans is that it takes some of the positive handling attributes of a RWD car...and ads in some of the undesirable characteristics of a FWD car...such as torque application affecting the drive wheels...to accomplish the goal of providing a car that drives much like a RWD car, but with better drivability in poor weather. If you like a RWD car, I can certainly understand not liking a FWD car because of the huge drawbacks a FWD setup brings to the feel of the car in any handling situation. I can also understand from that viewpoint not liking an AWD car in some situations because it brings some negatives from a FWD setup into play. If you like a FWD car I can understand you not liking an AWD car because it behaves a lot more like a RWD car under most circumstances.

But...since you like a FWD car...but really prefer RWD...theres just no logical reason for you not to like an AWD car. It basically blends the attributes of both setups, with a weight towards the RWD feel which you say you prefer overall. Someone with your preferences is exactly why luxury carmakers are coming out with these AWD sedans.

christcorp

Just a preference. The biggest thing with AWD is that there's different types. On many, the vehicle normally operates in FWD and electronically transfers power to rear as it needs it. Some, like the Suburu is more of a full time AWD. Some are a hybrid 60/40 which is variable depending on the road conditions.

When I speak of "Comfort", I'm not simply speaking of bumps, shocks, suspension, floating, firm, etc. I also include acceleration smoothness. Through the transmission and the feel of transfer of power. I can feel the difference of a car pushing (RWD) vs pulling (FWD). I can also feel the difference when driving an AWD.

I'm not ******* AWD. Not saying they are bad. Simply saying that I do not prefer the drive vs a FWD.

As for my preference with RWD over FWD I like the feel of the balance of the vehicle. I've been driving since the 60's when most cars were RWD. But I also lived in Europe for a good part of my younger adult life and dealt mainly with FWD. I prefer the RWD. But they do suck when the road conditions aren't that good. Some think the AWD is a good compromise. I don't. I think the FWD is a good compromise between a RWD and a 4x4. You don't have to deal with the 4x4 feel, but it improves handling and stability when road conditions aren't great. Again; just preference.

But there's no arguing if I had a car stuck in 5-10 inches of snow, that the AWD would probably have a better chance of getting out of it than the FWD. But then again, I won't ever be driving my ES350 in 5-10 inches of snow. That's why I have a Ford F250 with a 460cu engine that has never met an environment that it could get stuck in. And I've taken it to some hunting places that some people wouldn't even walk into.

But the FWD is the main reason I chose the ES350 over the IS and GS series. I won't buy an AWD "Car". I have no problem having it in my Rav4 or Outback. Just not in a car. Personal preference on how it drives and thus the comfort.

SW17LS

You certainly can feel the difference of the car pushing vs the car pulling, and you can feel a big difference in the way the steering reacts when accelerating, especially when turning in a FWD car. But...in an AWD car such as the GS, LS or IS 70% of power is going to the rear unless slippage occurs. so, the car feels more like a RWD car than a FWD car. The transfer cases in these cars are so smooth, acceleration is just as smooth in the AWD models as the RWD models.

You just have to realize that this aversion to AWD cars is a mental hangup more than it is anything else, if I took the AWD badge off of a GS and you drove it, you'd think it was RWD. To you, AWD or 4WD belong on a truck or SUV. It's a hangup I had to some degree as well until I owned an AWD car. It really is a great compromise, and I don't see myself ever buying a FWD car again. I'd still buy RWD since I have the jeep, but Lexus makes that impossible in my region.

nevernu

we need a nice thread about fwd, rwd and awd

christcorp

As long as the car goes forward when you need it to, that's all that matters. LOL! The rest is just preference.

I'm waiting for Lexus to come out with a "Hovercraft" version. Either Air or Magnets. Hee Hee.

SW17LS

This is true!

cschmatz

Because the LS 460 AWD is for people with lots of money!

Rogarven

Traded up from a Accord V6 and got a great deal from a private sale. Have driven FWD cars since getting rid of a 75 Volvo DL that was a POS. I like the quiet ride and quality that is there. I don't care if some people consider the ES350 a Camry in disguise as I look for MPG and reliability more than anything. I am not sure whether I will ever buy a new one as I don't like spending that much money on a car but we may have gotten spoiled. A CPO maybe???

SW17LS

The only people who say an ES is just a Camry in disguise have never directly compared an ES and a Camry

jagtoes

I believe the new ES is on the Avalon chassis. The older 2007-2012 model was on the Camry chassis. I wouldn't consider any of these similarities to be a problem or detrimental to either car.

LexBob2

Platform sharing to one degree or another is widespread across the auto industry. Not the big deal that some make it out to be.

SW17LS

The new one is on the Avalon chassis...but the Avalon chassis is just a stretched Camry chassis. Despite being on the same chassis the ES and Camry feel different, the ES is much nicer inside, smoother, quieter, etc.

With the new ES the gap closes considerably because the new ES is a little decontented and the new Avalon is much nicer than the old one...so in some ways the Avalon may actually be a little nicer than the ES which I think is a shame. But, when discussing the 07-12 ES and the 07-12 Camry, theres no comparison IMHO.

The only downside to me is the FWD layout. If the ES were RWD it would have remained quite attractive to me. Thats never going to happen though.

LexBob2

Since the ES is Lexus' entry level model and the Avalon is Toyota's flagship, maybe it gets a little higher level of refinement? This might apply more to the 2013+ models of both.

SW17LS

IMHO this shouldn't be the case. Whether the ES is Lexus' entry level car and the Avalon is the Flagship to me makes no difference. The ES as the entry level Lexus should be nicer, or at least as nice as the flagship Toyota.

christcorp

I also hate the word "entry level" because no matter how you look at it, the ES in my opinion blows the IS series out of the water in comfort.