Power-train Warranty Experiences?
09-12-12, 12:06 PM
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Power-train Warranty Experience.
Edit - All is well that ends well - If your car says "Check Air Conditioner" pull over it may be a bigger problem than you think.
I have a 2007 ES350 with ~68,000 Miles.
I love this car. I bought a Lexus ES350 because of the reliability (aside from a few publicized issues) the car should be bullet proof.
I have owned the car since 2009. I haven't had a problem and have taken the car to the service center for all the warrantied and scheduled services.
I have had something disastrous happen to my engine.
I just had an oil change at the Lexus dealer less than 30 days ago.
Last week I was driving the car and a warning came on that said "Check Air Conditioning." I live in the DC area and it gets hot here so I called the service center immediately and asked if I could bring the car in that evening. On my way to the service center the AC was not working so I drove windows down to the service center. The car drove just fine.
As I approached traffic (getting on the 270 spur from the 495 for those that know the capital beltway) a second light came on that said "Check VSC" at this point in time the car started driving weird. I checked the dash no other warning signs. Temperature reading was OK. There was no pickup though and something seemed odd. When I the traffic came to a stand still (as it often does when entering the 270) the car completely stalled out in the middle of 6 lanes of traffic on the capital beltway near rush hour.
Now I am very worried.
The Car started again but something was clearly wrong, no acceleration. I made it over to the side of the rode (which was not easy with 1000s of p-o ed commuters) and called AAA.
Cut to the chase:
The news I received from the service center is that my engine overheated, there was no coolant in the car and the engine is toast.
The Car has been with Lexus Service Center for the last 6 days and they have not given me a ruling on whether they will honor the 7 year 70,000 mile Powertrain warranty.
I am not a rookie car owner or unfamiliar with turning a wrench. I've replaced a transmission with a friend on a Toyota MR2. I understand the importance of engine coolant and not driving a car that is overheating. Looking back on the event, I was not given any warning that the car was over heating. There was an ECU readout that said temperature warning and knocking detection. However the temp needle on the dash never went to "H."
I don't know how I could have surmised that "Check Air Conditioning" means I have no Engine Coolant.
I'm hoping they do the right thing and honor the Power Train warranty but they aren't willing to give me an answer at this point in time. They haven't said yay or nay and it has almost been a week.
Has anyone had any experience with Lexus Power-Train Warranty?
I have a 2007 ES350 with ~68,000 Miles.
I love this car. I bought a Lexus ES350 because of the reliability (aside from a few publicized issues) the car should be bullet proof.
I have owned the car since 2009. I haven't had a problem and have taken the car to the service center for all the warrantied and scheduled services.
I have had something disastrous happen to my engine.
I just had an oil change at the Lexus dealer less than 30 days ago.
Last week I was driving the car and a warning came on that said "Check Air Conditioning." I live in the DC area and it gets hot here so I called the service center immediately and asked if I could bring the car in that evening. On my way to the service center the AC was not working so I drove windows down to the service center. The car drove just fine.
As I approached traffic (getting on the 270 spur from the 495 for those that know the capital beltway) a second light came on that said "Check VSC" at this point in time the car started driving weird. I checked the dash no other warning signs. Temperature reading was OK. There was no pickup though and something seemed odd. When I the traffic came to a stand still (as it often does when entering the 270) the car completely stalled out in the middle of 6 lanes of traffic on the capital beltway near rush hour.
Now I am very worried.
The Car started again but something was clearly wrong, no acceleration. I made it over to the side of the rode (which was not easy with 1000s of p-o ed commuters) and called AAA.
Cut to the chase:
The news I received from the service center is that my engine overheated, there was no coolant in the car and the engine is toast.
The Car has been with Lexus Service Center for the last 6 days and they have not given me a ruling on whether they will honor the 7 year 70,000 mile Powertrain warranty.
I am not a rookie car owner or unfamiliar with turning a wrench. I've replaced a transmission with a friend on a Toyota MR2. I understand the importance of engine coolant and not driving a car that is overheating. Looking back on the event, I was not given any warning that the car was over heating. There was an ECU readout that said temperature warning and knocking detection. However the temp needle on the dash never went to "H."
I don't know how I could have surmised that "Check Air Conditioning" means I have no Engine Coolant.
I'm hoping they do the right thing and honor the Power Train warranty but they aren't willing to give me an answer at this point in time. They haven't said yay or nay and it has almost been a week.
Has anyone had any experience with Lexus Power-Train Warranty?
Last edited by NewCombo; 09-27-12 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Happy Ending
09-12-12, 01:12 PM
#2
No personal experience but you have had all of your service work done by Lexus and I would hope they would do the right thing and take care of this under the power train warranty. Good Luck.
Dave Mac
Dave Mac
09-12-12, 07:26 PM
#5
This appears to be the second time in a few months on this forum where we have seen this exact same catastrophic failure. Everyone should be aware that the ES350 has no "Low Coolant Level Warning" unlike a whole bunch of other cars that have such a warning. The first indication apparent to the driver has been the "Check Air Conditioning" warning (probably because the AC system is not "seeing" any heat from the non-existant coolant). Also, once the coolant has got so low in quantity and is not getting circulated by the coolant pump the coolant temp sensor (that drives the coolant temp gauge via the PCM) is not in contact with any coolant so the reading is meaningless. Before this occurs you would think that as the coolant quantity was decreasing but there was still enough for the coolant temp sensor to read the coolant temp that the temp gauge would go into the "hot" zone.......but it's very possible that the driver would never notice the guage. I think Toyota has been really dumb here.......I've had other cars including my other present car (A Ford Focus yet) that has the temp gauge and a red warning light plus a low coolant level warning light. In most cases of leaking coolant the leak is obvious because coolant is seen under the car or the smell of hot coolant is noticed, but it is possible to have a very slow, continuous leak (in the form of a very fine mist/vapor from the pump seal, for example) that is never noticed by the car owner. I urge every ES350 owner to check the coolant level every week or so, or if you see any coolant, or smell it.......it only takes a short time to pop the hood and check it.
09-13-12, 06:47 AM
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This appears to be the second time in a few months on this forum where we have seen this exact same catastrophic failure. Everyone should be aware that the ES350 has no "Low Coolant Level Warning" unlike a whole bunch of other cars that have such a warning. The first indication apparent to the driver has been the "Check Air Conditioning" warning (probably because the AC system is not "seeing" any heat from the non-existant coolant). Also, once the coolant has got so low in quantity and is not getting circulated by the coolant pump the coolant temp sensor (that drives the coolant temp gauge via the PCM) is not in contact with any coolant so the reading is meaningless. Before this occurs you would think that as the coolant quantity was decreasing but there was still enough for the coolant temp sensor to read the coolant temp that the temp gauge would go into the "hot" zone.......but it's very possible that the driver would never notice the guage. I think Toyota has been really dumb here.......I've had other cars including my other present car (A Ford Focus yet) that has the temp gauge and a red warning light plus a low coolant level warning light. In most cases of leaking coolant the leak is obvious because coolant is seen under the car or the smell of hot coolant is noticed, but it is possible to have a very slow, continuous leak (in the form of a very fine mist/vapor from the pump seal, for example) that is never noticed by the car owner. I urge every ES350 owner to check the coolant level every week or so, or if you see any coolant, or smell it.......it only takes a short time to pop the hood and check it.
I wish I had this information prior to my incident.
if there was a second that I thought "Check AC" means I have no engine coolant I would have dropped everything and added coolant. I had no idea that two were connected.
Still no word from Lexus, I don't know if that is good or bad at this point in time.
This is definitely a major design flaw by Lexus which I am clearly the victim of.
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09-13-12, 08:09 AM
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09-13-12, 10:48 AM
#10
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Not necessarily. There's a slew of problems that could be causing the leak that maybe covered under the power-train warranty. Check out this:
http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/ownership/warranty/
It's for the current model year but the warranty hasn't changed much since 2007.
Good luck!
http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/ownership/warranty/
It's for the current model year but the warranty hasn't changed much since 2007.
Good luck!
09-13-12, 11:52 AM
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Not necessarily. There's a slew of problems that could be causing the leak that maybe covered under the power-train warranty. Check out this:
http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/ownership/warranty/
It's for the current model year but the warranty hasn't changed much since 2007.
Good luck!
http://www.lexus.com/models/ES/ownership/warranty/
It's for the current model year but the warranty hasn't changed much since 2007.
Good luck!
Thanks
I shared this with Lexus Service Center rep. I don't see how they can deny the claim with that information.
They said the water pump failing was the root cause which is clearly stated as covered under the Powertrain warranty in the warranty link you sent.
I'm still stuck in limbo and they won't give me an answer yet
09-14-12, 07:24 AM
#13
vvt-i oil hose is more likely coolant
Unless you blew a headgasket or had a rapid water pump failure, the more likely culprit is that you blew a vvt-i oil line and lost all oil. The headgaskets in these engines generally don't blow BUT there are lots of instances of bad water pumps ..... but they generally go out gradually ...... causing slow loss of coolant at first which the dealer should have caught if you were bringing it in for normal 5K service. If your head gasket or water pump failed suddenly ...... you would not be getting the run around on replacement of your engine in the normal powertrain warranty coverage period.
As to the oil line, there was a recall which covered 1.6 million vehicles. Since you brought it to dealer for service:
1) they should have caught this recall ..... and performed it. But note: There have been instances where the dealer said they did it but actually did not do it - or did it incorrectly and tried to cover it up.
2) Any coolant loss other than a blown head gasket or repidly failing water pump should have been gradual and the dealer should have inspected coolant level as part of normal service ..... when you brought it in for oil change just 30 days earlier. At that time, had your coolant recovery tank been very low or empty ...... the dealer should have done a pressure test on your cooling system AND inspected the water pump for leaks (dry pink coolant generallly shows up).
If an oil line blew, you are covered with no mileage limit through March 2013.
In any event ..... your powertrain warranty should be valid. See
https://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...placement.html
[sorry ... cannot edit title ..... should have read more likely than coolant]
As to the oil line, there was a recall which covered 1.6 million vehicles. Since you brought it to dealer for service:
1) they should have caught this recall ..... and performed it. But note: There have been instances where the dealer said they did it but actually did not do it - or did it incorrectly and tried to cover it up.
2) Any coolant loss other than a blown head gasket or repidly failing water pump should have been gradual and the dealer should have inspected coolant level as part of normal service ..... when you brought it in for oil change just 30 days earlier. At that time, had your coolant recovery tank been very low or empty ...... the dealer should have done a pressure test on your cooling system AND inspected the water pump for leaks (dry pink coolant generallly shows up).
If an oil line blew, you are covered with no mileage limit through March 2013.
In any event ..... your powertrain warranty should be valid. See
https://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...placement.html
[sorry ... cannot edit title ..... should have read more likely than coolant]
Last edited by Paul3637; 09-14-12 at 08:06 AM. Reason: word left out of title
09-14-12, 09:28 AM
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Unless you blew a headgasket or had a rapid water pump failure, the more likely culprit is that you blew a vvt-i oil line and lost all oil. The headgaskets in these engines generally don't blow BUT there are lots of instances of bad water pumps ..... but they generally go out gradually ...... causing slow loss of coolant at first which the dealer should have caught if you were bringing it in for normal 5K service. If your head gasket or water pump failed suddenly ...... you would not be getting the run around on replacement of your engine in the normal powertrain warranty coverage period.
As to the oil line, there was a recall which covered 1.6 million vehicles. Since you brought it to dealer for service:
1) they should have caught this recall ..... and performed it. But note: There have been instances where the dealer said they did it but actually did not do it - or did it incorrectly and tried to cover it up.
2) Any coolant loss other than a blown head gasket or repidly failing water pump should have been gradual and the dealer should have inspected coolant level as part of normal service ..... when you brought it in for oil change just 30 days earlier. At that time, had your coolant recovery tank been very low or empty ...... the dealer should have done a pressure test on your cooling system AND inspected the water pump for leaks (dry pink coolant generallly shows up).
If an oil line blew, you are covered with no mileage limit through March 2013.
In any event ..... your powertrain warranty should be valid. See
https://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...placement.html
[sorry ... cannot edit title ..... should have read more likely than coolant]
As to the oil line, there was a recall which covered 1.6 million vehicles. Since you brought it to dealer for service:
1) they should have caught this recall ..... and performed it. But note: There have been instances where the dealer said they did it but actually did not do it - or did it incorrectly and tried to cover it up.
2) Any coolant loss other than a blown head gasket or repidly failing water pump should have been gradual and the dealer should have inspected coolant level as part of normal service ..... when you brought it in for oil change just 30 days earlier. At that time, had your coolant recovery tank been very low or empty ...... the dealer should have done a pressure test on your cooling system AND inspected the water pump for leaks (dry pink coolant generallly shows up).
If an oil line blew, you are covered with no mileage limit through March 2013.
In any event ..... your powertrain warranty should be valid. See
https://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...placement.html
[sorry ... cannot edit title ..... should have read more likely than coolant]
I don't understand why I'm getting the run around.
09-14-12, 10:31 AM
#15
Most bizarre case I've EVER heard of -------
They serviced it 30 days earlier and they were negligent for not catching it then. When the water pumps go out ...... they start leaving traces of dried pink coolant around the leaks AND as I stated above, if you coolant was low, it was up to THEM to figure out why. Thus - you did everything RIGHT.
This is in excusable. I suggest you insist on speaking directly with a district manager with no further ado.
.