Water leaks
04-21-12, 09:08 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Water leaks
The problem is when my car is parked in a incline position nose down and it rains, some water is accumulating on the light plastic cover over the driver sun visor..The quantity of water depends on the rain fall.
I've brought my car in and they checked the roof drains, no problems. Sealed and rubbers are all ok.. The solution is quite simple but annoying, i have to remember to park my car every time it rains in the flat position.
Have any CL members encounter this problem and what would be permanent solution. I've searched the forum and only a few threads popped out without any solution.
thank you.
I've brought my car in and they checked the roof drains, no problems. Sealed and rubbers are all ok.. The solution is quite simple but annoying, i have to remember to park my car every time it rains in the flat position.
Have any CL members encounter this problem and what would be permanent solution. I've searched the forum and only a few threads popped out without any solution.
thank you.
04-22-12, 10:27 AM
#2
The problem is when my car is parked in a incline position nose down and it rains, some water is accumulating on the light plastic cover over the driver sun visor..The quantity of water depends on the rain fall.
I've brought my car in and they checked the roof drains, no problems. Sealed and rubbers are all ok.. The solution is quite simple but annoying, i have to remember to park my car every time it rains in the flat position.
Have any CL members encounter this problem and what would be permanent solution. I've searched the forum and only a few threads popped out without any solution.
thank you.
I've brought my car in and they checked the roof drains, no problems. Sealed and rubbers are all ok.. The solution is quite simple but annoying, i have to remember to park my car every time it rains in the flat position.
Have any CL members encounter this problem and what would be permanent solution. I've searched the forum and only a few threads popped out without any solution.
thank you.
04-22-12, 11:13 AM
#3
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
It's a ES08 ultra luxyry with the panoramic glass roof. Lexus did perform a water hose test for 5 minutes , but the car was flat on the flloor.. They checked the rubber seals and all was ok, The car is out of warranty. I could try to use a flashlight to look all over to see any possible leaks.
Remember, with the car is flat, even heavy rain, no water leak occurs.
Remember, with the car is flat, even heavy rain, no water leak occurs.
04-22-12, 11:33 AM
#4
Lead Lap
Even though they have supposedly been checked, you might check the two forward roof drain hoses to verify that they are open. It would make sense that water would drain through the two rear drain hoses if on level ground but not or as well if the car is parked nose down.
04-22-12, 01:51 PM
#5
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
thank you Kansas for the schematic, i will try to verify if the front drains are working properly, ive heard air hose will unclog the drain.
As i remember, when performing the water test at the dealership, water do run thru the side windshield, that couild be the result if the front drains are clogged. Water do fall on the ground from the back if the front wheel well.
As i remember, when performing the water test at the dealership, water do run thru the side windshield, that couild be the result if the front drains are clogged. Water do fall on the ground from the back if the front wheel well.
04-22-12, 03:07 PM
#6
I think you are going to have to help yourself on this. Park the car in the nose down attitude and using a garden hose vary the spray and spray angle and carefully look for the leak, both from the inside and checking from the topside.......it's got to be there somewhere. The panorama roof seals quite differently than the standard moon roof. The standard moon roof is more like a plug and has a peripheral seal and channel and the four drains that will drain any water that gets by the seal. The panorama roof is basically lowered into contact with the seals at the glass edges (the front glass panel with four edges and the aft glass panel with four edges and I think it can leak and allow water in an area such as where the poster has it (the water never gets to the drains).
04-22-12, 06:10 PM
#7
Lead Lap
I hope I didn't steer you wrong. If I had clicked Next one more time I would have seen the attached diagram of the panormaic roof which shows NO drain hoses at all.
Sorry!
Sorry!
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04-22-12, 06:45 PM
#8
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I think you are going to have to help yourself on this. Park the car in the nose down attitude and using a garden hose vary the spray and spray angle and carefully look for the leak, both from the inside and checking from the topside.......it's got to be there somewhere. The panorama roof seals quite differently than the standard moon roof. The standard moon roof is more like a plug and has a peripheral seal and channel and the four drains that will drain any water that gets by the seal. The panorama roof is basically lowered into contact with the seals at the glass edges (the front glass panel with four edges and the aft glass panel with four edges and I think it can leak and allow water in an area such as where the poster has it (the water never gets to the drains).
04-22-12, 08:25 PM
#10
The drains are only going to be needed/used when water leaks past the seal(s) because of a problem, or when the panorama roof panels are accidently opened (or open) with water on da roof. Never had a panorama roof but this is the third moon roof equipped car and I've never felt water or moisture (periodically checked with fingers) in the sheet metal roof channels. I believe that you've got water leaking somewhere between the glass underside surface and the seal, and guessing, I'd go for the small front panel as a starting point. It doesn't sound like much water but it should not be ending up on your visor. As indicated in the info supplied by nevernu the "rigging" of the panels is critical to prevent water leaks.
Last edited by oldgrump; 04-22-12 at 08:29 PM.
05-12-12, 10:15 PM
#11
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There is a drain in each corner. The ones in the rear seem to be larger and handle more water. It really runs out of there. The front drain openiings can be seen if you look into the cavity. Those drains seem large but they don't seem to carry anywhere near the water that the rears do. I didn't do a thing to the rears as they drain freely. The fronts didn't seem to be passing any water. I ran a 5 foot piece of weed eater line/cord, .105 inch thick variety, into the drain without getting any water drain. The next day I ran the line into the drain as far as I could push it and it came out with wet mud clinging to it so I guessed I was in the ball park. I flushed and probed and flushed and then I blew compressed air into the hole for long enuf that the fascination I once had was completely gone. I eventually got water flowing from under the seam in the front fender.rocker panel. They have a gap in the seam tp allow condensate to drain and, I am guessing here, TOYO fed the Sunroof drain into that chamber. My front drains do now work but slowly.
If your car is parked nose down then the front drains will have to pass all the water that runs in around the roof edges and some must do that by design. My wife parked on a hill once in the 10 years we have had the car and the interior light was filled with water the next morning. When she drove she made a sharp turn and water poured into her lap. Does wet hen ring a bell? She was livid. So I guess the rear drains don't plug as often as the fronts.
NOW! Can anyone tell me where the front drains exit the body? These drains can be unplugged from the other end if you can get at it.
For PM I put a drop of dish-washing detergent into the channel that runs down the side to the rear drains and I put a drop into the little depressions around the front drain. Theory is that a little soap will let the drains clean themselves.
If you use your sunroof a lot and leave it open it will get a lot of debris in there and you will have more problems. Clean out the gullies and depressions regular and run water in there every couple months or so. Fixing it is a pain. A drop of detergent cost nothing.
John jegrabe@gmail.com
If your car is parked nose down then the front drains will have to pass all the water that runs in around the roof edges and some must do that by design. My wife parked on a hill once in the 10 years we have had the car and the interior light was filled with water the next morning. When she drove she made a sharp turn and water poured into her lap. Does wet hen ring a bell? She was livid. So I guess the rear drains don't plug as often as the fronts.
NOW! Can anyone tell me where the front drains exit the body? These drains can be unplugged from the other end if you can get at it.
For PM I put a drop of dish-washing detergent into the channel that runs down the side to the rear drains and I put a drop into the little depressions around the front drain. Theory is that a little soap will let the drains clean themselves.
If you use your sunroof a lot and leave it open it will get a lot of debris in there and you will have more problems. Clean out the gullies and depressions regular and run water in there every couple months or so. Fixing it is a pain. A drop of detergent cost nothing.
John jegrabe@gmail.com
Last edited by JohnEd; 05-12-12 at 10:23 PM.
05-13-12, 07:02 AM
#12
You should be able to push your weed eater string the whole way through the line and see it exit the underside of the car.
I had a '78 Mercury Cougar with a power sunroof until not too long ago. As old as that car was, the front plastic lines had collapsed on themselves near the exit point in the front fenderwells; took a while to figure out what was going on. Same situation as this - go around a turn, driver/passenger got doused with water. Not fun.
Dish soap probably won't do anything if the lines are plugged or collapsed, unfortunately. I'd say if the lines look as large (comparing the exit path?) as the rears then they should most definitely flow as much water. Possibly a small pipe cleaner attached to something solid to push through the entire length of the line? My concern would be if there's any debris in the line still for other debris to catch on to, you'll have the same problem again if you regularly have to park the car outside.
I had a '78 Mercury Cougar with a power sunroof until not too long ago. As old as that car was, the front plastic lines had collapsed on themselves near the exit point in the front fenderwells; took a while to figure out what was going on. Same situation as this - go around a turn, driver/passenger got doused with water. Not fun.
Dish soap probably won't do anything if the lines are plugged or collapsed, unfortunately. I'd say if the lines look as large (comparing the exit path?) as the rears then they should most definitely flow as much water. Possibly a small pipe cleaner attached to something solid to push through the entire length of the line? My concern would be if there's any debris in the line still for other debris to catch on to, you'll have the same problem again if you regularly have to park the car outside.
05-13-12, 07:14 AM
#13
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
][quote=JohnEd;7228569]
Very creative, i will certaintely do that trick, seems logical.
I
The exact situation happen to me numerous time, In a sharp turn, water splash on my lap and driver arm rest.. From my guess, the water is dripping into the interior light fixture, i had on a hard rain about 5 ml of water there, but the hedliner is still quite dry , If i can simulate the problem with running water and a flash light in the cavity of the interior light fixture removed i can see the leak and hopefully put silicone.
When i went to the dealer and perform a test, water is draining out under the rear end of the front well, i guess by lifting the car up, you can probably see the hose tip. I have a oil change soon, so i will take my camera with me.
Did you find that trick helps ? i will surely try to fish a flexible rod to see anyt resistance and hopefully unclug whatever is there..
I open the sunroof daily, but i do clean regularly the sunroof panel, i guess that since 2008, debris have accumulated..
In all, John you have spotted exactly the concern of that problem and I'm greatful. Did your problem got resolved in some way ?
There is a drain in each corner. The ones in the rear seem to be larger and handle more water. It really runs out of there. The front drain openiings can be seen if you look into the cavity. Those drains seem large but they don't seem to carry anywhere near the water that the rears do. I didn't do a thing to the rears as they drain freely. The fronts didn't seem to be passing any water. I ran a 5 foot piece of weed eater line/cord, .105 inch thick variety, into the drain without getting any water drain. The next day I ran the line into the drain as far as I could push it and it came out with wet mud clinging to it so I guessed I was in the ball park. I flushed and probed and flushed and then I blew compressed air into the hole for long enuf that the fascination I once had was completely gone. I eventually got water flowing from under the seam in the front fender.rocker panel. They have a gap in the seam tp allow condensate to drain and, I am guessing here, TOYO fed the Sunroof drain into that chamber. My front drains do now work but slowly.
I
f your car is parked nose down then the front drains will have to pass all the water that runs in around the roof edges and some must do that by design. My wife parked on a hill once in the 10 years we have had the car and the interior light was filled with water the next morning. When she drove she made a sharp turn and water poured into her lap. Does wet hen ring a bell? She was livid. So I guess the rear drains don't plug as often as the fronts.
NOW! Can anyone tell me where the front drains exit the body? These drains can be unplugged from the other end if you can get at it.
For PM I put a drop of dish-washing detergent into the channel that runs down the side to the rear drains and I put a drop into the little depressions around the front drain. Theory is that a little soap will let the drains clean themselves.
If you use your sunroof a lot and leave it open it will get a lot of debris in there and you will have more problems. Clean out the gullies and depressions regular and run water in there every couple months or so. Fixing it is a pain. A drop of detergent cost nothing.
In all, John you have spotted exactly the concern of that problem and I'm greatful. Did your problem got resolved in some way ?
05-19-12, 01:28 PM
#14
Lead Lap
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Blue,
No! I am still looking for the exit point. I will have the car on a lift on Monday or Tues and I will look further then. The drop of soap will certainly help. I have no doubt about that. What plugs the line is a ultra fine silt from road dust. It is heavy and clings well and will eventually plug the hole/line. It also plugs the line with great tenacity and if you try to clear the "plug" with air and it is a good plug you will either burst the line or blow it off of its fitting. The cord reamer and water with a smidgen of soap will work without risk.
The head liner is smooth plastic on the top side that faces the roof....betcha. The water that comes into the roof under the head liner is getting in "under" the sunroof frame. That fixture isn't sealed all that well or consistently cause the water should never get deep enuf to weep through the screw holes. I would not seal that part of the system as the water in the fixture and lap is an alarm/warning/indication that you need to clear your tubes. Who knows where all the water will go if you let the depth increase a half inch up above your head. I don't think for a second that it would be of any such a degree that you would need scuba to drive, but still. Lots of systems have a designed in "weak point" just to prevent worse damage. Pressure cookers come to mind....when they are over heated there is a soft plug that fails. A 8 pound beef roast, 1/2 dozen potatoes , 1/4 pound carrots and a couple small onions can get thru that 1/4 inch hole in a second and a half with an ear splitting scream. Plug that soft plug with a bolt and you still get the roast all over the kitchen but then it includes all the shrapnel that is sooo hard to digest. Don't ask me how I know these things nor how I got these scars or partial deafness. What?
Nuff said?
John
No! I am still looking for the exit point. I will have the car on a lift on Monday or Tues and I will look further then. The drop of soap will certainly help. I have no doubt about that. What plugs the line is a ultra fine silt from road dust. It is heavy and clings well and will eventually plug the hole/line. It also plugs the line with great tenacity and if you try to clear the "plug" with air and it is a good plug you will either burst the line or blow it off of its fitting. The cord reamer and water with a smidgen of soap will work without risk.
The head liner is smooth plastic on the top side that faces the roof....betcha. The water that comes into the roof under the head liner is getting in "under" the sunroof frame. That fixture isn't sealed all that well or consistently cause the water should never get deep enuf to weep through the screw holes. I would not seal that part of the system as the water in the fixture and lap is an alarm/warning/indication that you need to clear your tubes. Who knows where all the water will go if you let the depth increase a half inch up above your head. I don't think for a second that it would be of any such a degree that you would need scuba to drive, but still. Lots of systems have a designed in "weak point" just to prevent worse damage. Pressure cookers come to mind....when they are over heated there is a soft plug that fails. A 8 pound beef roast, 1/2 dozen potatoes , 1/4 pound carrots and a couple small onions can get thru that 1/4 inch hole in a second and a half with an ear splitting scream. Plug that soft plug with a bolt and you still get the roast all over the kitchen but then it includes all the shrapnel that is sooo hard to digest. Don't ask me how I know these things nor how I got these scars or partial deafness. What?
Nuff said?
John
05-19-12, 05:28 PM
#15
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Today, i tackle my problem, this is what i did:
I tested both side of the windshield by using a 60 ml syringe with water and running it thru the corner gap when the panoramic sunroof is fully open, the corner gap can be seen easily that way.
I put a recipient to catch water running on the bottom of the car. On the passenger side, water is draining fine, In 60 ml water and out 50 ml water. On the driver side, the clug is obvious.
Unclogging the driver side:
i used a steel wire to cleaning and pushing it to the rubber between the A pillar and the windshield glass since that is the only hole available for the water to drain. I manage to push about 3-4 inchs down the rubber with some resistance. I ran the water test again, and voila the water drain good, BUT i'm still not satisfy because the water is not draining flawlessly, i would think that i could run the wire more deeply down, no luck, So i try something else which is using a curve small plyer and giggle the rubber opening a little bit, thinking that the rubber maybe out of shape by being push down by the windshield. The result is outstanding, the water is draining identical to the passenger side.
Conclusion:: reshaping the rubber opening just a little bit will correct the clog problem. I guess the pressure of the windshiield can sometime crush the shape of the rubber hole to constrict the water drain.
I ran the syringe test on the driver side, in 60 ml and out 50 ml
Thoughts:
I don't think there is a hose running down the chassis, since by pushing a steel wire thru the gap, i can't feel anytthing, like there simply a groove for the water to run down. By looking on the bottom of the car, water is dripping from various sites, like it is freefalling.
I tested both side of the windshield by using a 60 ml syringe with water and running it thru the corner gap when the panoramic sunroof is fully open, the corner gap can be seen easily that way.
I put a recipient to catch water running on the bottom of the car. On the passenger side, water is draining fine, In 60 ml water and out 50 ml water. On the driver side, the clug is obvious.
Unclogging the driver side:
i used a steel wire to cleaning and pushing it to the rubber between the A pillar and the windshield glass since that is the only hole available for the water to drain. I manage to push about 3-4 inchs down the rubber with some resistance. I ran the water test again, and voila the water drain good, BUT i'm still not satisfy because the water is not draining flawlessly, i would think that i could run the wire more deeply down, no luck, So i try something else which is using a curve small plyer and giggle the rubber opening a little bit, thinking that the rubber maybe out of shape by being push down by the windshield. The result is outstanding, the water is draining identical to the passenger side.
Conclusion:: reshaping the rubber opening just a little bit will correct the clog problem. I guess the pressure of the windshiield can sometime crush the shape of the rubber hole to constrict the water drain.
I ran the syringe test on the driver side, in 60 ml and out 50 ml
Thoughts:
I don't think there is a hose running down the chassis, since by pushing a steel wire thru the gap, i can't feel anytthing, like there simply a groove for the water to run down. By looking on the bottom of the car, water is dripping from various sites, like it is freefalling.
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