JohnS

Hi All,

The new Hyundai Azera looks pretty nice. Is anyone considering checking it out as a competitor for the ES?

Thanks, John

LexBob2

From what I've seen in pictures it looks pretty nice. A big improvement over the current generation. I'm sure it will be a good value too. I'm not sure if I'd consider one at this time, but that's just me. I couldn't pull the trigger on a Genesis when I bought my 2010 ES. But all that might change by the next time I'm due for a new car.

John U

Playing with the price calculator on their site.... Even if the new model comes in at the same price as their current model. I'll pay a few thousand more for the Lexus and bet I get it back when I trade later vs the Hyundai.
It is a sharp looking model ....obvious who they and Buick copied!!!!

LexBob2

On price alone, the Azera probably competes more with the Avalon but I wouldn't be surprised if their ads compare it to the ES350.

When the LaCrosse came out Buick spent as much time talking about the ES in their ads as they did about the Buick. According to CR, the reliability has dropped to Below Average. i don't think they Recommend it any longer.

07LexusGuy

It is difficult to compare the new Azera to an older design like the ES. Wait until the next gen ES (2013 possibly) and we'll have a better comparison.

JohnS

it looks interesting visually, hope to check it and the Genesis out for the fun of it.

RickC5

Even though we actually have a local Hyundai dealer, they don't stock Azera or Genesis models. Not much interest here in the wild west I guess. We don't even have a Lexus dealer within 250 miles (or an Acura, Infiniti, Mercedes or BMW dealer for that matter).

Anyway, I have only seen photos of the Azera and found the car to be quite bland & uninteresting, but that's just my opinion. Even the lines of the body aren't as smooth and aero-looking as the ES, and maybe the interior would look better in something other than grey. Maybe it has to be seen in person to be appreciated.

I agree that it would be difficult to compare a new design car like the Azera to our old design (2006?) ES350s, but the Hyundai web site does allow you to compare the Azera Limited to the 2012 ES. They seem to compare favorably feaure-to-feature, but who knows about how the Azera drives? The Limited is about $6000 less than the comparable ES, and there's a cheaper model too.

The amount of new technology being added to cars is amazing, plus most technology pieces get cheaper over time. I'm anxiously awaiting the next generation of the ES. It ought to be spectacular.

JohnS

Hoping Lexus follows suit and adds in the technology and luxury features such as power-folding mirrors, LED DRLs, etc.

I was thinking the Azera might be more of a comparision than the Genesis to the ES because it is front wheel drive versus rear drive for the Genesis. That is a factor for me given the winter weather in Ohio.

Does Hyundai have the power tilt/telescope wheel as in Lexus? Probably my favorite feature in my ES!

Humaira

Here we go again, comparing apples and oranges: Hyundais--even Buicks--to the Lexus marquee. Folks, IMHO, these two makes do not fall in the same category as the Lexus brand. If you are currently driving a Lexus, you know that. If you are not, then the other brands are the greater pretenders. I recently drove a brand new Korean rental, and the feel of of it was like driving a cycle rickshaw. There were many geegaws in the car, but they were not very tactile, rough to the touch. In other words, it will probably take Hyundai another five years to impress me.

2008 Saphhire Black ES350
2001 Gold RX 300

RickC5

Yeah, you're right about that. We traded-in our 2010 Honda Accord EX-L V6 for the 2008 ES and feel we really have a much nicer car now. Nothing "wrong" with the Accord, if you don't mind excessive road noise, poor stereo, harsh ride, and the transitions from the VCM on the engine. After 2 years and 15K miles, we had enough. Very pleased with the ES--our second Lexus.

I'm thinking the Azera may be an "Accord killer" if Hyundai targets Accord and Camry buyers. It won't take away too many ES buyers, that's for sure.

lgb0250

First of all I want to say I don't think Hyundai has any intention of comparing the Azera head to head against the ES350. That's what they did with the Genesis. Makes no sense whatsoever to have two vehicles by the same mfr comparing their models to just one other IMO.

Secondly, when we were shopping for our new car a couple of years ago I really liked the looks of the Genesis and LaCross. All three models were priced within a couple of hundred dollars of each other with the options I wanted. The problem was that once being in the auto business, I knew that neither of these models would hold their value compared to the ES350. GM has never supported the residual values of their products and thus they take much higher depreciation cost than similar models from other mfr. The Genesis on the other hand has held it's value quite well. The problem is for older people, which it is basically targeted at, we remember what a piece of trash Hyundai's used to be! I admit they have improved their vehicles by 1000% but that old nagging memory was still in the back of my mind while shopping.

Last but certainly not least is I compared resale values for all three using Edmunds and came up with the below numbers. I used the same color, mileage, condition and options for all comparisons and came up with these figures:


2010 Genesis

Trade $25,777
Private Party Sale $27,674
Dealer Retail $29,460

2010 LaCross CXS

Trade-in $21,873
Private Party Sale $24,175
Dealer Retail $25,999

2010 Lexus ES350

Trade-in $26,541
Private Party Sale $29,248
Dealer Retail $31,585

I used "Outstanding" as the condition but keep in mind that no dealer will ever give you that condition rating on a trade. But IMO it is a very telling comparison as far as resale value goes between the different models. Since I like a new vehicle every 3-5 years these were the most important numbers to me while shopping.

LexBob2

This is good information.

I think the ES costs a bit more than the Genesis and Buick when similarly equipped (or as close as you can get) so it should return more when you sell or trade-in.

I looked at True Car and listed the Base Price of each car and then checked most of the Options boxes for each and came up with this. It is just down and dirty, but gives an idea of the price differences.

Genesis $35.1k/$44.2k
LaCrosse $30.8k/$42.7k (AWD)
ES350 $37.6k/$46.3k

At this point I'll still take the ES over the other two. It will be interesting to see the next gen ES, as this current one is in its 6th model year.

LexPaul

I'm waiting on the 2013 ES to come out, I'm hoping that it will be a winner, however I'm also considering stepping up to the LS. I have no interest in the Hyundai brand, although I do think that their designs are eye catching. If I had to make a choice outside of Lexus it would probably be an Infiniti M or maybe a Mercedes E class.

The Buick brand is nice, but fit and finish still lags any Lexus brand. If I were to 'step back' I would probably get an Avalon Limited, which is really almost on par with the ES. The Toyota CE is nice also. Luxury has to be earned through value, fit, , finish, realibility, available options, comfort, 'perceived staus', performance and consumer support. You just can't make a flashy looking car and all of sudden you're in an upscale or luxury category. My bar for luxury is higher, and IMO it has to be earned based upon the above specifics and demostrated through time.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

Any company can make a car with lots of tech, good looks, a decent engine, and a good price, but not many companies can make a high quality car. Companies like Hyundia can make cars that on paper, match up to mercedes, bmw, lexus, ect, but sit inside the car and live with it, you'll see why the latter are more expensive. These luxury car makers make their cars to a higher standard and are just better built and better quality

JohnS

The challenge with the Genesis is that it is rear wheel drive so of you want the apples to apples you need to compare the Azera and LaCrosse to the ES.
That being said, we ES owners could have driven something else for less money but the cache of the Lexus brand is worth the premium.