encore888

This was posted in Car Chat, and suggested to post here:

http://www.autoguide.com/manufacture...s350-1327.html

Thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-lacrosse.html

*Batman*

Yeah I read that too. Not really surprising. Buick at its lower price point and higher manufacturing cost position cannot compete with Lexus. The only way they could make a better car at the price they are charging is if they lost a few grand on every one.

rx300mm

I drove friends Buick LaCrosse, the leather finish is not bad, the drive is OK not as smooth and wonderful as ES350, what I dislike most about LaCrosse is the amount of chrome they used, it stands out on a dark colour. What I would like to read is a comparison of ES350 with Hyundia Genesis Sedan, that is one car I would like to test drive but my wife is not into the name Hyundia and if I am spending that kind of money .. I would stay with the big "L"

*Batman*

I bought an ES350 for my parents last year. I test drove the Genesis first, and I much preferred the Genesis. The interior finishing is much nicer (e.g. leather trimmed dash), and the rear wheel drive platform provides better handling - much closer to the GS but more plush and less sporty than the GS. It feels like a more credible luxury car than the ES on many dimensions.

If I was driving the car, I would have gone with the Genesis. However my parents were not so keen given the Hyundai branding, and also I had concerns about the service department at our local Hyundai dealer - service people seemed pretty rough. In the end I wanted to buy my parents a low risk low hassle product with great service, and that favored Lexus.

zhivuyatut

It's not easy to break stereotypes. And Buick in my stereotypes was never one of luxury brands. Why even compare it to Lexus?
I've read that Buick marquee is very prestigious in China - one of the reasons GM did not drop it in favor of Cadillac, which is supposed to be true GM luxury brand. I don't care for Cadillac either, but I would definitely leave the Buick for Chinese to drive.
Korean cars probably would not break the stereotype of cheap wheels until they establish a separate brand, with more enticing name than Hyundai. And then again, there is a quantum leap in quality they have to make. A leap which respectable companies like Mazda tried to make, but never succeeded.

*Batman*

This might suggest Hyundai has already made that leap in quality, while Mazda has not. Of course perceived quality is a lagging indicator of actual quality.

Regardless, quality alone does not a luxury brand make. Toyotas are high quality but not luxury. This is the main reason Hyundai needs a separate brand.

zhivuyatut

Automaker has first to built a reputation for quality and well-designed cars. Then, with savvy marketing, they can carve out a share of the luxury market.
Lexus was very lucky with their initial launch of LS, everything else just piggybacked on that success.
Infinity struggled at first, but finally found itself after stopping to chase the LS.
Acura made a big mistake in dropping the Legend lineage, and tarnished its image by selling rebadged Isuzu Trooper and not so luxury Integra.
Mazda upped the ante with Millenia's hi-tech engine and much improved quality, but was too late to the game.

The most Hyundai Genesis (or any Buick for that matter) can do is compete with Toyota Avalon for the hearts of Cadillac and Lincoln shoppers.

BMW-MB-Audi and Lexus-Infinity-Acura are another two completely different leagues, and there is no room for Hyundai in them.

*Batman*

This is not true. Go over to the Hyundai forum and look at the what did you drive previously thread. You will see a bunch of Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes drivers who are switching. Some of these are people who previously bought used luxury cars and now are buying new Genesis. Others are business owners or executives who are not doing as well as before and can't keep up with the steep price increases as newer models come out. And some are people who just want value for money - and are switching from ES350s to Hyundai so they can get a RWD V8 car for the same money.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Hyundai lover and I will probably never buy a Hyundai branded car in my life.

What you are saying about the Hyundai Genesis is the same thing people were saying about the LS400 in 1989. That the best a Toyota will do is compete with Volvo, Lincoln and Cadillac for the second tier luxury market and that they couldn't touch BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar. Now look at Toyota - Number One in US Luxury Car Sales taking share from Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

zhivuyatut

I see myself in 15-20 years retiring and buying an upscale Hyundai, for all the reasons you quoted, plus because by that time it would have proven image and value.

I am saying that it took Lexus over ten years to get a widespread acceptance and "image" of a luxury brand. Genesis may be Hyundai's LS400, but it was LS430 when people really started to pay attention. Before I see how Genesis would fare ten years down the road, I am not buying one. There is no way I am buying, or recommending someone a Sonata, because I was not impressed with it's evolution as a me-too also-ran since its inception.

*Batman*

Yeah. I did not even consider Lexus until the L-Finesse design theme. As recently as 2004 I was calling Lexus an overgrown Toyota while driving around in my BMW.

rx300mm

I totally agree with about Hyundai, their cars are getting better and look great. Once people get over the branding it'll be competing with Toyoto for it's spot world wide.
The web site below shows Sonata Hybrid coming soon.
http://www.netcarshow.com/hyundai/2011-sonata_hybrid/