Oil pressure hose failed
05-21-12, 08:08 PM
#106
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Update- oil line failure - dealer diagnosis
Get this...as i stated yesterday, there was a record of the oil cooling hose being replaced last year, but not the oil line that was recalled. Lexus quickly took a look today and diagnosed the problem was NOT the recalled oil line but is in fact, wait for it, the oil cooling line.
I pointed out that the cooling line was already replaced, so how could it have failed again? They say that the service record was wrong and the entry in the record last year for the oil cooling line was actually the recalled oil line.
He admitted they were having issues with the cooling line as well and were replacing it with an improved part. Told me it is $400 which includes labor. I have a mind to have it towed to another shop but my time is worth something.
They also claim i only lost 1 quart of oil. I have trail of oil about a mile long as well as a driveway covered in oil which would suggest otherwise....
Not sure what I need to do next, but I don't think i can let this go wothout a fight.
I pointed out that the cooling line was already replaced, so how could it have failed again? They say that the service record was wrong and the entry in the record last year for the oil cooling line was actually the recalled oil line.
He admitted they were having issues with the cooling line as well and were replacing it with an improved part. Told me it is $400 which includes labor. I have a mind to have it towed to another shop but my time is worth something.
They also claim i only lost 1 quart of oil. I have trail of oil about a mile long as well as a driveway covered in oil which would suggest otherwise....
Not sure what I need to do next, but I don't think i can let this go wothout a fight.
05-21-12, 08:12 PM
#107
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You would be doing a great service to the rest of us 1.5 million or so 2GR-FE owners ..... and possibly to yourself ..... if you could snap a picture of the broken oil line BEFORE it is fixed. Thus far, there are NO,NONE,ZERO,NADA DOCUMENTED cases of the replacement hose failing if the correct part was installed. The correct replacement part should have either:
A yellow stripe on it
OR
The designation KK20 OIL ACM FKM.
The original part will have either no markings or it will say in yellow letters: AT OIL ACM.
Look what happened on this Highlander when we had the guy take a picture of his failed hose after the service was done by the dealer ....... Sure enough .... it was not the correct part and almost 100% certain the service was never done:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/12...-oil-leak.html (picture at post #7)
The dealer, knowing Toyota could prove they did not ever do the service ..... tried to warrant the part off to a HYBRID Highlander to which the recall did not even apply. Then, the dealer tried to claim they did the service
but with the wrong part. However, this is almost impossible and certainly not even remotely plausable for the following reasons:
1) the "wrong part" ------ the rubber hose (NOT the full "rubber metal assembly") has NEVER been specified by Toyota or Lexus as a single part .. it has only been a part of a full assmebly of rubber & metal hose ... and to replace the hose with the "wrong part" (the full rubber/metal assembly) would require removal of the power steering pump or other parts which adds one hour to the labor process ........ which is exactly why Toyota and Lexus went to the "el cheapo" fix of replacing the rubber piece only rather than the all metal oil line as the fix was done on the assemblly line. Labor for recall fix: 0.7 hrs ...... labor for full oil line (metal or assembly) service: 1.5 hrs.
2) Even the original version of the "defective part" never failed before 2 years/20,000 miles (2005 Avalons). The 2010 recall version of the rubber hose is actually Toytota's 4th version of that same stupid rubber hose. There is ZERO reason this 4th version would fail faster than the original version.
*******
Moreover, you are covered by warranty through April 2013 for all repairs AND anciallry damage such as replacement of the timing cover or even full engine replacement.
Go to this website if you have not already ......
http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
read especially about the gal with the Rav4 that was told "tough luck" when the "replacement hose" ruptured 18 months after the recall service was suppose to have been performed and 6 months after her factory powertrain warranty had expired. After complaining to the President of the dealership ....... she got an entire new engine as well as a refund of what she paid to fix the busted (supposedly replaced) oil line !!!!!!!!!
Please keep us posted.
A yellow stripe on it
OR
The designation KK20 OIL ACM FKM.
The original part will have either no markings or it will say in yellow letters: AT OIL ACM.
Look what happened on this Highlander when we had the guy take a picture of his failed hose after the service was done by the dealer ....... Sure enough .... it was not the correct part and almost 100% certain the service was never done:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/12...-oil-leak.html (picture at post #7)
The dealer, knowing Toyota could prove they did not ever do the service ..... tried to warrant the part off to a HYBRID Highlander to which the recall did not even apply. Then, the dealer tried to claim they did the service
but with the wrong part. However, this is almost impossible and certainly not even remotely plausable for the following reasons:
1) the "wrong part" ------ the rubber hose (NOT the full "rubber metal assembly") has NEVER been specified by Toyota or Lexus as a single part .. it has only been a part of a full assmebly of rubber & metal hose ... and to replace the hose with the "wrong part" (the full rubber/metal assembly) would require removal of the power steering pump or other parts which adds one hour to the labor process ........ which is exactly why Toyota and Lexus went to the "el cheapo" fix of replacing the rubber piece only rather than the all metal oil line as the fix was done on the assemblly line. Labor for recall fix: 0.7 hrs ...... labor for full oil line (metal or assembly) service: 1.5 hrs.
2) Even the original version of the "defective part" never failed before 2 years/20,000 miles (2005 Avalons). The 2010 recall version of the rubber hose is actually Toytota's 4th version of that same stupid rubber hose. There is ZERO reason this 4th version would fail faster than the original version.
*******
Moreover, you are covered by warranty through April 2013 for all repairs AND anciallry damage such as replacement of the timing cover or even full engine replacement.
Go to this website if you have not already ......
http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
read especially about the gal with the Rav4 that was told "tough luck" when the "replacement hose" ruptured 18 months after the recall service was suppose to have been performed and 6 months after her factory powertrain warranty had expired. After complaining to the President of the dealership ....... she got an entire new engine as well as a refund of what she paid to fix the busted (supposedly replaced) oil line !!!!!!!!!
Please keep us posted.
05-21-12, 08:27 PM
#108
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So I am going to
The dealer soon for my door panels chipping chrome off. The question is does this effect 2010 models? If it does and they play stupid I'll just change the line myself.
15772-31030 is for the new rubber line or the all metal?
The dealer soon for my door panels chipping chrome off. The question is does this effect 2010 models? If it does and they play stupid I'll just change the line myself.
15772-31030 is for the new rubber line or the all metal?
05-21-12, 08:35 PM
#109
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Wow 15772-31030 is an 18 dollar part on trdsparks.com we are sure this is the correct hose? There is a diagram on there too.
Btw for those of you who don't know trdsparks.com does a TON of business for aftermarket Toyota addons but they also have a regular parts department like any other dealer. They are a toyota dealer in SC but there prices are MUCH better and fast shipping. Most dealers don't Carry alot parts now anyways so you have to order anyways.
Btw for those of you who don't know trdsparks.com does a TON of business for aftermarket Toyota addons but they also have a regular parts department like any other dealer. They are a toyota dealer in SC but there prices are MUCH better and fast shipping. Most dealers don't Carry alot parts now anyways so you have to order anyways.
05-21-12, 10:26 PM
#110
The ONLY tube that should be installed on your car is the 15772-31030. It is an all steel tube (it has NO neoprene flexible section) and because it is visible by simply opening the hood of your car, it is worthwhile checking that this latest version is actually installed, particularly when Lexus will pay for it (including labor) until the end of March next year. It was easy to locate/see on my 2011. Irrespective of what supposedly was accomplished previously on your car and what documentation you may have (or what any dealer tells you).......visually confirm it for yourself. The following IPC reference (ignore the "oil cooler" terminology) shows both the old part, and the new all steel tube (ref. 15771M) but it does only list the correct part number: http://lexus.sewellparts.com/oem-cat...S350-2009.html. Some of you may have seen this: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...32465-2885.pdf
Last edited by oldgrump; 05-21-12 at 10:31 PM.
05-22-12, 09:49 AM
#111
This does not affect the 2010 model year.
It only affects vehicles manufactured prior to April 2008. Vehicles manufactured after that date have the all metal line installed from the factory and this oil line never fails.
05-22-12, 03:39 PM
#112
Dcbert: Your dealer sounds inept
The only foolproof fix is the all metal oil line used in the manufacturing fix mentioned in oldgrump's post above. For a picture of both parts side by side, go here and look at post #34.:
http://www.rav4world.com/forums/96-4...warning-4.html
It shows three photos including the all metal oil line and the metal & rubber oil line side by side. The entire problem lies in that little piece of rubber in the middle of the metal and rubber oil line assembly.
The Lexus recall is called Limited Service Campaign "923 LSC 9LH." Toyota call theirs the LSC 90K but it is the exact same thing.
The correct fix to the problem - the all metal oil line part #15772-31030 - is NOT called for in the recall, although a few people report getting it done.
Instead, the recall procedure is to remove the defective rubber portion of the "oil & rubber hose assembly" which goes by any of the following part numbers depending on the vehicle:
15707-31010
15707-31011
15707-31012
15757-31030
[they all look the same to the naked eye]
and replace the piece of rubber with the a stronger reinforced/reformulated rubber that should be good for at least 100,000 miles if not the life of the car. It will have the all yellow stripe or the aforementioned lettering noted in my original post to you.
If your dealer fixes your car by simply replacing the entire metal and rubber assembly with a different one (with any of the part numbers above) that does not have the yellow stripe or correct lettering, you will be stuck with the same darn problem that your car had in the first place.
Last edited by Paul3637; 05-22-12 at 04:02 PM.
05-22-12, 07:55 PM
#113
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Your dealer sounds inept
There is "NO" fix that is "partial metal;"..
The only foolproof fix is the all metal oil line used in the manufacturing fix mentioned in oldgrump's post above. For a picture of both parts side by side, go here and look at post #34.:
http://www.rav4world.com/forums/96-4...warning-4.html
It shows three photos including the all metal oil line and the metal & rubber oil line side by side. The entire problem lies in that little piece of rubber in the middle of the metal and rubber oil line assembly.
The Lexus recall is called Limited Service Campaign "923 LSC 9LH." Toyota call theirs the LSC 90K but it is the exact same thing.
The correct fix to the problem - the all metal oil line part #15772-31030 - is NOT called for in the recall, although a few people report getting it done.
Instead, the recall procedure is to remove the defective rubber portion of the "oil & rubber hose assembly" which goes by any of the following part numbers depending on the vehicle:
15707-31010
15707-31011
15707-31012
15757-31030
[they all look the same to the naked eye]
and replace the piece of rubber with the a stronger reinforced/reformulated rubber that should be good for at least 100,000 miles if not the life of the car. It will have the all yellow stripe or the aforementioned lettering noted in my original post to you.
If your dealer fixes your car by simply replacing the entire metal and rubber assembly with a different one (with any of the part numbers above) that does not have the yellow stripe or correct lettering, you will be stuck with the same darn problem that your car had in the first place.
The only foolproof fix is the all metal oil line used in the manufacturing fix mentioned in oldgrump's post above. For a picture of both parts side by side, go here and look at post #34.:
http://www.rav4world.com/forums/96-4...warning-4.html
It shows three photos including the all metal oil line and the metal & rubber oil line side by side. The entire problem lies in that little piece of rubber in the middle of the metal and rubber oil line assembly.
The Lexus recall is called Limited Service Campaign "923 LSC 9LH." Toyota call theirs the LSC 90K but it is the exact same thing.
The correct fix to the problem - the all metal oil line part #15772-31030 - is NOT called for in the recall, although a few people report getting it done.
Instead, the recall procedure is to remove the defective rubber portion of the "oil & rubber hose assembly" which goes by any of the following part numbers depending on the vehicle:
15707-31010
15707-31011
15707-31012
15757-31030
[they all look the same to the naked eye]
and replace the piece of rubber with the a stronger reinforced/reformulated rubber that should be good for at least 100,000 miles if not the life of the car. It will have the all yellow stripe or the aforementioned lettering noted in my original post to you.
If your dealer fixes your car by simply replacing the entire metal and rubber assembly with a different one (with any of the part numbers above) that does not have the yellow stripe or correct lettering, you will be stuck with the same darn problem that your car had in the first place.
I will ask for the part number. I left a message making it clear I want the damaged hose for inspection. I appreciate the advice.
05-23-12, 08:36 AM
#114
Yep
I think part of the problem is they have me talking to a service consultant. The guy is wearing a suit. He certainly didn't sound like a mechanic.
I will ask for the part number. I left a message making it clear I want the damaged hose for inspection. I appreciate the advice.
I will ask for the part number. I left a message making it clear I want the damaged hose for inspection. I appreciate the advice.
My favorite ..... the only time our Lexus dealer every tried to upsell us on unnecessary service was when they told my (ex) wife she needed the "required" 15,000 transmission fluid change on her 2002 ES300. I yanked out the owner's manual and asked ......" where in here does it say to do that "
The answer: "It's only in the SECRET owners manual ...... available only to authorized Lexus dealers. So I asked to see it ............. "Sorry, but I am not authorized to show it to you."
Wrote to the GM of the dealership afterwards .... and got next oil change service free.
05-30-12, 07:57 AM
#117
dcbert -- status? another one blew last night !!
Similar situation to yours over in the Avalon forum:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/15...-oil-leak.html
Recall service performed at 40K; oil leak now at 90K.
Were you able to tell yet whether it was the correct or incorrect part that failed? What is your status ...... hope your dealer is not sitting on it !!!!!
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/15...-oil-leak.html
Recall service performed at 40K; oil leak now at 90K.
Were you able to tell yet whether it was the correct or incorrect part that failed? What is your status ...... hope your dealer is not sitting on it !!!!!
05-30-12, 12:40 PM
#118
There are a couple of reasons to eliminate the solid/flex combination version of this oil line. The apparent question of what material specification of the flex hose itself, being one. The fact that spring band clamps are used at the hose to tube connections for an oil pressure line that can be subjected to oil pressure up to about 80 psi, is not a good idea in my opinion. I'm sure that the steel tube ends have a formed bead, but spring band clamps are usually only used on "low pressure" fluid systems that operate under about 20 psi (an example would be the cooling system). Normally, oil pressure hoses have swaged or crimped connections to tubes/pipes or fittings. The RX350 that is equipped with the oil cooler option uses oil pressure hoses (oil in & oil out) that have swaged type hose/tube connections. If I owned an ES350 with the solid/flex oil line I would definitely get it replaced with the all steel tube, just to put my mind at rest.
10-16-20, 09:16 PM
#119
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Im replacing the rubber vvt-i hose section. I cant replace the entire rear vvt-i line. If i leave that plastic 2 bolt cover off then i can inspect both ends of the rubber vvt-i hose yearly. Is that 2 bolt plastic cover important?
Also are there better clamps then the supplied toyota clamps? I did get new ones, but would prefer better ones that might also be easier to install
Also are there better clamps then the supplied toyota clamps? I did get new ones, but would prefer better ones that might also be easier to install
10-18-20, 03:38 PM
#120
Pole Position
Im replacing the rubber vvt-i hose section. I cant replace the entire rear vvt-i line. If i leave that plastic 2 bolt cover off then i can inspect both ends of the rubber vvt-i hose yearly. Is that 2 bolt plastic cover important?
Also are there better clamps then the supplied toyota clamps? I did get new ones, but would prefer better ones that might also be easier to install
Also are there better clamps then the supplied toyota clamps? I did get new ones, but would prefer better ones that might also be easier to install