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Old 07-31-09, 07:56 PM   #31
LexPaul
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Lexus has the value that it's customer base places on it. It's been the top selling mid-size luxury car for 15 years in the US and the most reliable. Enough said. Those who bash the Lexus should buy what they want. I love the ES, and while GM is making strides with the Buick Lacrosse, the build quality is not there yet. Detroit has always made cars that 'look' good but came up short on reliability and build quality. Lexus, Inifiniti, Mercedes Audi and BMW basically took the Luxury car market from the US automakers and now we're playing catch-up while these cars just keep getting better and better. All we have to do is look on the road and see what's out here, simple. Lexus and BMW are the top selling luxury brands in the US and in fact sold the most cars of the segment in this lousy economy during the last quarter, yeah chew on that one. Motor Trends is basically a mouthpiece for US automakers, but I don't worry about that because buyers will continue IMO to place value on the 'tried and tested', i.e, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW and Mercedes....and yeah Audi....very nice ride......last but not least, the Lacrosse is not a Luxury vehicle, cheap plastics and feel (inside mimics the CTS) and is more targeted against the Toyota Avalon...so the wannabees should go there..
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Old 07-31-09, 09:52 PM   #32
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Thanks for the info. (and to garsano)

Level III ???
Yeah, level III is a dealer term, but it means an ES just below Ultra, it has all the premium plus options, but adds , Nav+park assist and of course HID/AFS, and the rest.....
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Old 07-31-09, 11:02 PM   #33
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Lexus has the value that it's customer base places on it. It's been the top selling mid-size luxury car for 15 years in the US and the most reliable. Enough said. Those who bash the Lexus should buy what they want. I love the ES, and while GM is making strides with the Buick Lacrosse, the build quality is not there yet. Detroit has always made cars that 'look' good but came up short on reliability and build quality. Lexus, Inifiniti, Mercedes Audi and BMW basically took the Luxury car market from the US automakers and now we're playing catch-up while these cars just keep getting better and better. All we have to do is look on the road and see what's out here, simple. Lexus and BMW are the top selling luxury brands in the US and in fact sold the most cars of the segment in this lousy economy during the last quarter, yeah chew on that one!! Motor Trends is basically a mouthpiece for US automakers, but I don't worry about that because buyers will continue IMO to place value on the 'tried and tested', i.e, Lexus, Infiniti, BMW and Mercedes....and yeah Audi....very nice ride.....and Acura....last but not least, the Lacrosse is not a Luxury vehicle, cheap plastics and feel (inside mimics the CTS) and is more targeted against the Toyota Avalon...so the wannabees should go there..
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Old 08-01-09, 07:45 AM   #34
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Yesterday I stopped in two different Buick dealerships to look at the new LaCrosse. Neither of them had one in stock. Both said they're on the way, and there was a lot of interest with people coming in looking for them.

In the new C&D they reviewed one and it got a favorable review considering it was a Buick in C&D. The interior got high marks for design ("adventurous and spectacular"). That can be subjective though.
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Old 08-01-09, 11:50 AM   #35
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Yesterday I stopped in two different Buick dealerships to look at the new LaCrosse. Neither of them had one in stock. Both said they're on the way, and there was a lot of interest with people coming in looking for them.

In the new C&D they reviewed one and it got a favorable review considering it was a Buick in C&D. The interior got high marks for design ("adventurous and spectacular"). That can be subjective though.
Just keep in mind that we are talking about a US built Buick. A change from the low quality junk they were producing is not hard. The change may be monumental for Buick, but still nowhere near Lexus.
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Old 08-01-09, 07:24 PM   #36
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Just keep in mind that we are talking about a US built Buick. A change from the low quality junk they were producing is not hard. The change may be monumental for Buick, but still nowhere near Lexus.
I don't think they built 'low quality junk' for the LaCrosse...that's a bit harsh (it was built in Canada after all....and that plant has won countless awards for quality & efficiency)....but not to Lexus standards is fair.
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Old 08-02-09, 04:30 PM   #37
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I don't think they built 'low quality junk' for the LaCrosse...that's a bit harsh (it was built in Canada after all....and that plant has won countless awards for quality & efficiency)....but not to Lexus standards is fair.
I agree. The LaCrosse was the best quality Buick in many, many years. The Canadian build helped the quality (no US unions and low quality overpaid labor). By low quality junk, I was thinking back to the Lesabre, Park Ave, Rendezvous, Rainier. This is the stuff that helped GM get into the mess they are in now.
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Old 08-04-09, 05:28 AM   #38
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It's going to be high interest in the new Lacrosse once it hits the showroom. I'm thinking that the Lexus ES350 was the target and they will have done their homework on cloning the car as near as can be.
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Old 08-04-09, 09:26 AM   #39
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I agree. The LaCrosse was the best quality Buick in many, many years. The Canadian build helped the quality (no US unions and low quality overpaid labor). By low quality junk, I was thinking back to the Lesabre, Park Ave, Rendezvous, Rainier. This is the stuff that helped GM get into the mess they are in now.
I guess you haven't heard of the CAW
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Old 08-04-09, 10:25 AM   #40
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I guess you haven't heard of the CAW
Was thinkin the same thing.
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Old 08-04-09, 03:31 PM   #41
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I'm sure I'll be bashed for this, but here it goes....

I owned Buicks - an 84 Regal, 90 Riviera, 93 Regal and last a 98 Regal GS (Oshwa Built & Supercharged). IMHO there was a real improvement throughout the years, in terms of build quality and reliability. I probably would have stayed with the Buick line if they wouldn't have produced the 2005 Taurus, oops, I mean Lacrosse.

While the 98 Regal wasn't my favorite in terms of styling, it was by far the most reliable, with 150k miles logged and very few minor non-routine problems. The supercharged engine was the bomb - low end torque galore.

Now the part I'll be bashed for, I really don't see that much quality difference between the 07 ES350 and the 98 Regal I had. Yes, the ES gets better fuel economy and I like the styling and interior ergonomics better. Yes my ES is overall good quality, but things like engine noise/vibration at idle (dealer has tried to fix to no avail), brakes (rotors need to be turned every 15k miles), engine noise when cold (the dreaded diesel noise), dash rattles (the dealer did recently did the TSB, we'll see this winter how that goes) - all those bar it from being "great". Maybe mine suffers from the first model year blues.

Anyway, IMHO the quality of the 98 Regal and the 07 ES are pretty close, so far during the first 42k. However, I do agree, that I'm not sure I would rush out and buy the new Lacrosse, or any GM product for that matter as I'm sure there are some folks at GM that really are concerned with building the best car right now.

My 2 cents worth
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Old 08-04-09, 11:49 PM   #42
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Yes...that's exactly what happened...a cloned wannabee Lexus...but you could also see it in the Lucerene...copycats!!..Whoa!!...quality of 98 Regal as good as 07 Lexus...Oh you got jokes?? Regal = Cutlass LS...I had em...I'm still laughing....
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Old 08-05-09, 05:07 AM   #43
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Never had to replace a transmission at 1,000 miles on a GM product as I did 2X on my ES350. Took 52,000 miles on my '07 Impala SS for a transmission replacement.
At 28,000 miles on my ES350, rear brakes needed replacing. Originals still on my SS and '07 Grand Cherokee at 57,000 miles. If I did not bring in the TSB for the ES350, they intended to charge me for them and chalk it up to normal wear.
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Old 08-05-09, 06:01 AM   #44
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Maybe mine suffers from the first model year blues.
I think that hits the nail on the head. ^

I use to be a GM man personally.....both vehicles had the 3.8L V6 from the early 90's which was one of GM's best in the fleet at the time (although the technology dated back to the 60's).

I would have to say overall though comparing a 98 Regal to an 07 ES 350 is a pretty big stretch.
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Old 08-05-09, 06:59 AM   #45
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I got my car in early-May '06. Since then it's been back to the dealer only 3 times.
1. Complimentary 1k service
2. Full detail included in the purchase
3. For the 3 yr/36k service. They didn't give %'s, but at the 3 year service they said there were plenty of miles left on the tires (Michelin) and brakes.

No complaints here.
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Old 08-05-09, 06:59 AM
 
 
 
 
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