Lexus refuses to fix my car - and lie about it.
10-29-08, 10:35 AM
#16
Seems as though everyone is focusing on the alignment and possibly the tires...I have also noticed pulling can result from defective calipers, pads installed incorrectly, tie rod end or other suspension component issues etc. So not saying that this is whats happening in your case but dealers tend to focus on obvious or what customer "thinks" is the problem and dont look outside the box. Jus my .02. Can you bring it to a Toyota dealer if there is a good one near you?
10-29-08, 10:54 AM
#17
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I'm so glad to see people finally acknowledging this. My IS350 has rattled in several locations since new, and the dealer has only caused additional rattles in trying to repair them. They tell me it's a "sports car", so it's normal. Unbelieveable.
If you want proof that Lexus quality is going downhill, pick ANY pre-2006 Lexus and drive it. Quiet...no rattles. They spent money on design changes for 2006, and the beancounters made sure the car was "value engineered", which resulted in rattles from hell. I've NEVER had a car that creaked and rattled like my Lexus.
If you want proof that Lexus quality is going downhill, pick ANY pre-2006 Lexus and drive it. Quiet...no rattles. They spent money on design changes for 2006, and the beancounters made sure the car was "value engineered", which resulted in rattles from hell. I've NEVER had a car that creaked and rattled like my Lexus.
My advise is to bail out of that car, you're not going to get a quick turn around from lemon law or lawer (it'll take a year and you'll be stuck with the car (I know, I've been down that road with VW). It's the quickest path to resolution and prossibly the safest for you and your family considering a stearing problem could lead to an accident.
Good luck!
Last edited by safford197; 10-29-08 at 11:14 AM.
10-29-08, 11:05 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
i'm surpised that none of hte techs thought to rotate your front tires. that's usually the problem when you get a pull like that fi the alignment is within spec. maybe i should move up there and show them how to work on cars since they dont' seem to be able to figure out a 10 minute fix for what's turning into a nightmare for you.
seriously, that's all it will take. in my experiece as a tech at lexus and other high end brands, tires will cause exactly what you're having a problem with. more times thani can count, i've simply rotated teh tires and fixed the problem to everyone's satisfaction.
road crown will cause a drift in a lexus. left lane will go left, right lane will go right, center lane will usually go straight. that's just how the geometry is set up. as long as that's not what you're dealing with, get the tires rotated. hell do it yourself just to see if htat fixes it, then swap them back and take it to the dealer and have them do it if you want to make them look stupid.
if that's the level of expertise in 3 different dealers in your area, i need to move there, because i coudl double my income!
seriously, that's all it will take. in my experiece as a tech at lexus and other high end brands, tires will cause exactly what you're having a problem with. more times thani can count, i've simply rotated teh tires and fixed the problem to everyone's satisfaction.
road crown will cause a drift in a lexus. left lane will go left, right lane will go right, center lane will usually go straight. that's just how the geometry is set up. as long as that's not what you're dealing with, get the tires rotated. hell do it yourself just to see if htat fixes it, then swap them back and take it to the dealer and have them do it if you want to make them look stupid.
if that's the level of expertise in 3 different dealers in your area, i need to move there, because i coudl double my income!
10-29-08, 11:31 AM
#19
Pole Position
i think you should go to good alignment shop and get it checked out, i am not talking about sears or pep boys there has to be a good aftermarket alignment shop where you live.
My friend brand new is350 he had problems with rattles every time they fixed something they messed one other thing like scratching the dash or using greasy hands and messing up the interior i try to go to Lexus my last resort even my car is under warranty because quite frankly they take too much time and the problem just gets worse. Hopefully a good alignment shop would fix the issue
My friend brand new is350 he had problems with rattles every time they fixed something they messed one other thing like scratching the dash or using greasy hands and messing up the interior i try to go to Lexus my last resort even my car is under warranty because quite frankly they take too much time and the problem just gets worse. Hopefully a good alignment shop would fix the issue
Hello All,
I am here to post my not so happy story with Lexus. I am from Illinois.
Simply put, First dealership (Arlington Lexus) failed to fix my alignment issues and messed it up further. Second dealer (Woodfield Lexus) refused to even touch my car (despite Lexus HQ asking them to give me a second opinion which they refute and HQ states they did leave a voicemail). The third dealer (Lexus of Naperville) blatantly lied about fixing it (states he drove my car on smooth road for 4 miles and found no drift. His own paperwork however states that the IN and OUT mileage are both 12530!).
The car was perfectly fine for the first 9K miles. It started pulling to the left initially. Dealer "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, it started pulling to the right. Dealer apologized profusely and "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, the alignment was off (in the second 2 scenarios it was a slow process, not one fine day). Dealer squarely blamed it on me stating I hit a pothole. I told him that I had not and was extremely careful with the car especially after the first alignment. The third alignment was done incorrectly.
We agreed to speak to a field rep. In the mean time, I took my car to the second dealership and they said that alignment was not covered under warranty initially. When I told them politely that it was, he took his book out and stated that it was covered under warranty but only ONCE. My warranty does not state that and I told him so. He then replied that their warranty ALWAYS supercedes (which is incorrect per Magnuson Moss law) and that a lot of other things had not been specified in my book! He refused to look at the car without a diagnostic fee. I had to leave because I was not prepared to pay for a problem that was under warranty.
I met with the field Rep who initially stated every possible jargon in the book until we drove a 2008 ES350 demo. The demo did not exhibit any issues and he agreed to look into my car. Later next day I got a call that my car had been fixed and they told me that the preload on the steering was adjusted. When I went to pick up my car I was in for a shock. The paperwork stated that the car experienced NO drift (which is a lie) and they had adjusted the preload based on my request (lie again!). The problem still remained.
I called Lexus HQ regarding this. Early next week someone from HQ called and initially said that the field rep had mentioned that there were no issues. I told him that I disagreed and that I had paperwork which the service manager had signed that stated that I disagreed with the problem description and the resolution. He finally relented to my request to have the car taken to another dealership and I chose to go to Woodfield Lexus. I was asked to speak to Don O' Connor and I did and left him a voicemail. His associate (Sean) called me the next day to setup the appointment. I asked him why Don had not called and he replied that Don was busy. I had also asked one of their experts take my car for a test-drive.
On the day of the appointment, I went in on time at 7AM (note that I had a newborn at this time and it was very demanding to actually get there on time). I left my car, explained all the issues alllll over again. When asked to go for a test drive, the service manager said that I had to wait for Don until 8AM. I had a meeting but called to cancel it because this was important. They called me into Don's office (I learnt he was the General Service Manager only then). He asked me why I was there and I explained. He said he knew that but said the field rep had called to tell him not to touch my car because it was "fixed". I explained to him that I was there because the HQ asked to take a second opinion and had an appointment and had left him a voicemail. Don refuted everything! He stated that I had not called not had the HQ called him regarding this. I was asked to LEAVE.
I called the HQ again and the pacifiers they are apologized profusely and told me that the note said that this guy (Aaron) had left Don a message. Aaron called me later in the day to tell me that it was best for me to go to arbitration. I asked him what had changed between the Tuesday when he initially spoke to me and now and he replied it was based on the same information. So I asked him why he had wasted my time to which he did not reply.
Sick and tired, I contacted an attorney who was willing to take my case. He sent a letter to Lexus and they denied the claim. He then advised me to take the car to a third dealer.
I did and took the car to Lexus of Naperville. I told them about the car and its state and they agreed to look at it. The service manager there stated that alignment/wheel balancing was only covered ONCE (same story). I asked her to give me a copy of the same for my reference which she did. Their General Service Manager (dont know why he would call me for a warranty service!) Mike Jones called to let me know that they would have to charge me for the service. I asked them to go ahead. A day and half-later they finally called to tell me that there wasn't anything wrong with the car except the alignment was off a "little bit". I knew this because I had taken my car to a independent alignment shop for verification.
Mike and I went for a test drive and I told mike that nothing had changed in my car and told him the loaner they had given me drove beautifully (it was a 2008 ES350 with 10K miles). We went back to drive that but it was loaned before we got there and had to take another ES350 loaner. That car drove perfectly well as well which Mike refused to acknowledge. I gave up and came home. When I went over the service record, it stated that the car had no drift when they drove on a smooth road for 4 miles. I'd also told them that my car had repeated trans flares and they said they had reset something in the trans and test-driven it. Here is the funny part: The IN mileage was 12530. OUT mileage was 12530. Any guesses anyone?!!! Well yeah, they had just lied to me about the whole thing. I did not notice this until I came home though.
The trans flare on my car got worse after their "fix". I have attached a copy of their service record highlighting the fields of interest. Take a look.
All this from LEXUS. Supposed to be the most dependable brand. I am shocked by their service level. Please pass this information onto anyone you know. Everything I state here is a FACT and would be more than happy to show you corresponding service records.
I am here to post my not so happy story with Lexus. I am from Illinois.
Simply put, First dealership (Arlington Lexus) failed to fix my alignment issues and messed it up further. Second dealer (Woodfield Lexus) refused to even touch my car (despite Lexus HQ asking them to give me a second opinion which they refute and HQ states they did leave a voicemail). The third dealer (Lexus of Naperville) blatantly lied about fixing it (states he drove my car on smooth road for 4 miles and found no drift. His own paperwork however states that the IN and OUT mileage are both 12530!).
The car was perfectly fine for the first 9K miles. It started pulling to the left initially. Dealer "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, it started pulling to the right. Dealer apologized profusely and "fixed" it. 3 weeks later, the alignment was off (in the second 2 scenarios it was a slow process, not one fine day). Dealer squarely blamed it on me stating I hit a pothole. I told him that I had not and was extremely careful with the car especially after the first alignment. The third alignment was done incorrectly.
We agreed to speak to a field rep. In the mean time, I took my car to the second dealership and they said that alignment was not covered under warranty initially. When I told them politely that it was, he took his book out and stated that it was covered under warranty but only ONCE. My warranty does not state that and I told him so. He then replied that their warranty ALWAYS supercedes (which is incorrect per Magnuson Moss law) and that a lot of other things had not been specified in my book! He refused to look at the car without a diagnostic fee. I had to leave because I was not prepared to pay for a problem that was under warranty.
I met with the field Rep who initially stated every possible jargon in the book until we drove a 2008 ES350 demo. The demo did not exhibit any issues and he agreed to look into my car. Later next day I got a call that my car had been fixed and they told me that the preload on the steering was adjusted. When I went to pick up my car I was in for a shock. The paperwork stated that the car experienced NO drift (which is a lie) and they had adjusted the preload based on my request (lie again!). The problem still remained.
I called Lexus HQ regarding this. Early next week someone from HQ called and initially said that the field rep had mentioned that there were no issues. I told him that I disagreed and that I had paperwork which the service manager had signed that stated that I disagreed with the problem description and the resolution. He finally relented to my request to have the car taken to another dealership and I chose to go to Woodfield Lexus. I was asked to speak to Don O' Connor and I did and left him a voicemail. His associate (Sean) called me the next day to setup the appointment. I asked him why Don had not called and he replied that Don was busy. I had also asked one of their experts take my car for a test-drive.
On the day of the appointment, I went in on time at 7AM (note that I had a newborn at this time and it was very demanding to actually get there on time). I left my car, explained all the issues alllll over again. When asked to go for a test drive, the service manager said that I had to wait for Don until 8AM. I had a meeting but called to cancel it because this was important. They called me into Don's office (I learnt he was the General Service Manager only then). He asked me why I was there and I explained. He said he knew that but said the field rep had called to tell him not to touch my car because it was "fixed". I explained to him that I was there because the HQ asked to take a second opinion and had an appointment and had left him a voicemail. Don refuted everything! He stated that I had not called not had the HQ called him regarding this. I was asked to LEAVE.
I called the HQ again and the pacifiers they are apologized profusely and told me that the note said that this guy (Aaron) had left Don a message. Aaron called me later in the day to tell me that it was best for me to go to arbitration. I asked him what had changed between the Tuesday when he initially spoke to me and now and he replied it was based on the same information. So I asked him why he had wasted my time to which he did not reply.
Sick and tired, I contacted an attorney who was willing to take my case. He sent a letter to Lexus and they denied the claim. He then advised me to take the car to a third dealer.
I did and took the car to Lexus of Naperville. I told them about the car and its state and they agreed to look at it. The service manager there stated that alignment/wheel balancing was only covered ONCE (same story). I asked her to give me a copy of the same for my reference which she did. Their General Service Manager (dont know why he would call me for a warranty service!) Mike Jones called to let me know that they would have to charge me for the service. I asked them to go ahead. A day and half-later they finally called to tell me that there wasn't anything wrong with the car except the alignment was off a "little bit". I knew this because I had taken my car to a independent alignment shop for verification.
Mike and I went for a test drive and I told mike that nothing had changed in my car and told him the loaner they had given me drove beautifully (it was a 2008 ES350 with 10K miles). We went back to drive that but it was loaned before we got there and had to take another ES350 loaner. That car drove perfectly well as well which Mike refused to acknowledge. I gave up and came home. When I went over the service record, it stated that the car had no drift when they drove on a smooth road for 4 miles. I'd also told them that my car had repeated trans flares and they said they had reset something in the trans and test-driven it. Here is the funny part: The IN mileage was 12530. OUT mileage was 12530. Any guesses anyone?!!! Well yeah, they had just lied to me about the whole thing. I did not notice this until I came home though.
The trans flare on my car got worse after their "fix". I have attached a copy of their service record highlighting the fields of interest. Take a look.
All this from LEXUS. Supposed to be the most dependable brand. I am shocked by their service level. Please pass this information onto anyone you know. Everything I state here is a FACT and would be more than happy to show you corresponding service records.
10-31-08, 08:04 PM
#20
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I got around to cross-rotating my front tires. I also had them check the alignment while they were at it. It turned that the alignment per their measurement was within spec. Unfortunately though, after the tires were cross-rotated, the car still behaves exactly the same way. On the center lane, the car still pulls to the right under mild acceleration, deceleration or braking. If I on the left lane (crown to the left i.e.), I can hold the steering (to keep it straight) and slightly accelerate (or take my leg away from the gas or brake) and the car still pulls to the right. When I let go of the steering on the left lane, the steering immediately turns to the left and the car pulls to the left. It is increasingly seeming that the problem is not with my alignment or tires. I am getting this feeling that the first dealership screwed something up the first time and are just trying to cover it up or Lexus has realized that there is a problem that is freaking costly to fix and they would rather not. I am just asking Lexus to own up to their problems and reimburse my money. I am not even asking them to reimburse me for all the hardships they have put me through. Imagine being literally insulted when the General Service Manager at Woodfield Lexus stated that I was lying about having called for an appointment.
11-06-08, 11:30 AM
#24
Lexus Champion
ok, well here' swhat we would have done if you were here at the lexus dealer where i worked. we would have taken another ES, and removed all 4 wheels and swapped them with yours to test if the pull would move to the other car or if your car would now go straight.
that would have been the first step. unfortuantley you live in chicago where the dealers don't seem to be as willing to help out a customer.
i would ask them to do that and post the results.
that would have been the first step. unfortuantley you live in chicago where the dealers don't seem to be as willing to help out a customer.
i would ask them to do that and post the results.
11-07-08, 03:43 PM
#25
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11-30-08, 06:05 PM
#26
I stopped by this forum tonight looking to see if the transmission "flare" has been cured and this thread title caught my eye.
I experienced the same problem (in my wife's '94 ES300 original owner etc) when I changed the struts and shocks. The front strut has a "bearing". It's a circle about 6" in diameter that is a nylon looking rotating "lazy susan" styled circle that the weight of the car rests on and lets the front suspension turn with the wheels.
Now the two I replaced moved smoothly (one on each side of the front suspension) The new ones were rough moving but I used them thinking that's the way they must be when new and they 'wear in". The car pulled badly and braked to the left on some roads and right on others. I had it back twice for alignments days apart....everything was perfect on the computer. The tires were new and rode perfect before ...etc, etc.
Months later they have "worn in" and the car is back to it's stellar self.
My thoughts are maybe one of the front strut bearings has gone bad?
Good luck,
JU
I experienced the same problem (in my wife's '94 ES300 original owner etc) when I changed the struts and shocks. The front strut has a "bearing". It's a circle about 6" in diameter that is a nylon looking rotating "lazy susan" styled circle that the weight of the car rests on and lets the front suspension turn with the wheels.
Now the two I replaced moved smoothly (one on each side of the front suspension) The new ones were rough moving but I used them thinking that's the way they must be when new and they 'wear in". The car pulled badly and braked to the left on some roads and right on others. I had it back twice for alignments days apart....everything was perfect on the computer. The tires were new and rode perfect before ...etc, etc.
Months later they have "worn in" and the car is back to it's stellar self.
My thoughts are maybe one of the front strut bearings has gone bad?
Good luck,
JU
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