ESsearch

It is the 3/4 version. The first couple of times it was "Wow, that was odd". If not for this forum I would not have know what happened. I did have it rev up and surge forward once while slowing down. I wasn't watching the tach at the time.

Pete

ES350Bob

I wouldn't try to duplicate it if you are still trying, just let it let you know when that would be worth your time and effort if it starts doing it with more instensity than 300 RPM and/or more often then try.

Chuck just posted his did it at 4,000 miles and hasn't since and seems most often it will show itself long before 4,000 if it is going to do it with any frequency, in my experiences and those posted by most others.

Macklin

Yes, mine have been very intermittent from day one....and always baby flares. Weeks on end without one. For instance, I have not experienced one in over three weeks now and it's been pretty cold lately.

I'm holding my breath.

osokuko

I have been tracking my flare since the day they started back on October 9th 06. They show up nearly every 1st start of the day, Not saying “cold start” because that phrase misleads you into thinking it cold related and it’s not. My first drive of the day are mostly at 5:00 am going to work. On my days off my first drive of the day could be 1:00 pm and it flare then too. I’ve noticed a pattern developing over the last 3 months of tracking, If my driving style is slow granny driving the first drive in the morning usually shows a 400 sometimes 600 flare. Lately I’ve been more aggressive in my drive style, faster get away at the green lights to posted speeds. The first one up the freeway ramp. The car seems to like that as the first drives in the morning have been mostly around 200 or none. Once in awhile a 600 then back to 200 or none again. A mechanical problem should not act like that, a computer fuzzy software program could act that way.

ES350Bob

Thanks to a posting by terryes on another thread we have the corresponding Lexus transmission TSIB # that pertains to that released for Toyotas.

"TC001-07 has been out for two days now. 1,000 rpm 3/4 flare shift."

terryes

As TC001-07 covers ES350 production up to VIN 64871. What specific changes were made in VIN 64872 to resolve the 3/4 flare? And when was VIN 64872 manufactured (month/year)?

Several forum members claim they have good contacts among the Lexus Technicians, therefore this information should be easily obtained.

ES350Bob

Thanks for the additional info including production VIN. Mine falls under this TSIB and I too would like to know what specific changes were made, especially since I have seen several reports from members here and by google search of ES350 transmission where trans were replaced in recent
days-weeks failed. I wonder if this is the latest change version of trans failing since replacements were so recent.

onsknht

From what I understand, one of the following has occurred.

1. Modified check valve positioning or actuating mechanism.

2. Revised assembly procedures where all tooling materials are flushed from the cases prior to assembly.

3. The torque converter (rememeber this is a completely new piece and was engineered to provide more efficiency) was revised using better components (meaning stronger vanes) and or lockout functionality.

Vette2

As several of you have agreed, for us to know whether or not Lexus has the lid on this issue, we need to know the VIN vintage of recently reported vehicles exhibiting tranny flares.

Also, it should be as obvious to Lexus as it is to me that the pipeline of replacement transaxles must be flushed to assure that one bad tranny isn't replaced with another that may have the same problem. It would be reassuring to those of us who, from sad experience, have found that in large corporations the right hand often doesn't know what the left is doing, to know just how one can identify a transaxle, OEM or replacement, that was manufactured AFTER the alleged fix. All transaxles are, of course, serialized but the TSIB shows the part number as the same and doesn't provide the manufacturing cut-over date code or serial number of a supposedly "good" transaxle

Only time and good reporting by our members will tell us if this truly is the fix we've all been waiting for and is it being implemented intelligently.

ES350Bob

Here is a link below to read full TSIB posted by BMT prior.

What I'd like to know is does it mean anything at all that the TSIB only states up to 1,000 RPM as if there is no awareness they go far beyond that at times and with kickback/surge when they do?

Here's the link:
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Lexus/116...-07/index.html

toneman

Man, all this talk about tranny flares makes me sorta kinda wish I had waited and bought an '07 G35 Sport sedan instead of my ES--a near fully-loaded one (minus 4-wheel steering) lists for almost $4K less than what my ES listed for. Yes I know I'd be "giving up" the panoramic roof and the semi-analine leather...and that it's a Lexus...but for the amount of money I'd wind up saving I'd have a G35 Sport with almost all the same lux features that are in my ES, plus stuff that isn't available on the ES--larger wheels/brakes, paddle shifters, LSD, a slightly-better featured stereo system (no it probably doesn't sound as great as the ML but it does offer hard-drive based storage and XM NavTraffic option), intelligent cruise control (somewhat similar to the radar CC available for the ES) and 30+ more HP in a slightly-lighter vehicle. Too bad my car isn't exhibiting the flare frequently enough so as to maybe eventually warrant a buyback...my brother just bought an '07 G35 Journey for $267 under invoice! Yes I know I can't really compare Journey and Sport, but he bought it at a dealer that has recently been offering near/below invoice pricing on their '07 G35 sedans; I bet that, given the ES 350 flare issues, some of you would seriously consider going over to the "dark" side and buy a G35 if you could get it at below invoice and be able to get a buyback on your ES...

Okay...sorry for the off-topic post.

dunnojack

I'm on the fence with that. compared to a stripped es, the gs costs a good chunk more money.

2007es350

I would seriously consider the g35 as my next car.

Vette2

[QUOTE=ES350Bob;2380527]
What I'd like to know is does it mean anything at all that the TSIB only states up to 1,000 RPM as if there is no awareness they go far beyond that at times and with kickback/surge when they do?
[QUOTE]

Actually, I'm encouraged by the wording in the current TSIB which I see as as a liberalization of the language in the superseded TSIB which required a confirmation of a "....sharp increase in RPM...." and didn't specify the "drive pattern" to be used by the tech for confirmation.

In my case in particular, this led the tech to say initially that under the old TSIB, my car did not exhibit the described symptoms. While I was in the car, he accelerated mildly and eased off a bit just before the 3-4 shift, producing a 300-400 rpm flare. This, he said, was not the "...sharp increase in RPM..." referred to in the TSIB! After a bit of intense discussion (I'm a devout gear-head engineer and shade tree mechanic who considers the ASAE Journal recreational reading) we reached a meeting of the minds and he documented my car as exhibiting a classic 3-4 flare. As I had stated in a post on this forum a while ago, I will wait until I am confident that there is a viable solution to this problem before I commit to a transaxle replacement, but I wanted it documented.

FWIW, in the vein of pure speculation, my considered opinion of the root cause of the classic 3-4 flare problem, based on considerable study of the design and construction of the U660E, is that a drain down of ATF fluid in the solenoid control valve SL2/clutch C2 circuit is occurring during a 4+ hour cold soak. This hydraulic circuit, which first activates after drive away during the first 3-4 shift, having drained takes longer than it should to apply so the additional time required for the additional fluid required to refill the circuit and apply the C2 clutch allows a momentary declutching of the transmission which causes the RPMs to flare until a delayed engagement of C2 takes place. Once an initial 3-4 shift has occurred or sufficient driving/warm-up time has elapsed to allow this circuit to properly fill, a flare will not occur. Subsequent 3/4 shifts during that driving cycle will operate normally.

I think it's safe to assume that Toyota engineers are not incompetent but they probably have erasers on their pencils like the rest of us. Further, TMC has nothing to gain by letting this problem fester. Certainly they are spending big bucks to change out transmissions and even buy back cars in an attempt to temporarily address the problem pending a permanent fix. This only serves to convince me further that the problem involves long lead time hardware components in the main body of the transmission portion of the transaxle. Common sense tells us that early failures must have been back in the labs in Japan within days of being pulled out of cars. If a software problem was the root cause or rewrite would have fixed the problem, we would have heard the sighs of relief all the way from Japan and a re-flash would have been released months ago.

With all this in mind, and since we know the valve body (which contains SL2) change out didn't work at all, I have to assume that the C2 clutch circuit, which is part of the main body of the transmission, is the most likely culprit. Anything of that nature requiring a design modification to address is a worst case scenario and would result in the longest lead time to implement, which is exactly what we have been seeing. In the meantime, changes in dimensions and/or tolerances of affected parts, parts selection, additional inspection and testing would most likely be introduced to try to minimize the number of units with the problem. Been there...Done that!!!

It will be interesting, to say the least, if and when the few people (probably limited to Japan) who must know what really is going on share the secret with the rest of us. You can bet that isn't likely to happen until a real fix is available. I'm still waiting!!

ES350Bob

Very good point, I forgot about the flare is there just not conforming to the TSIB perspective of old I experienced myself as did you. At least you were able to convince it be documented as such, I was left with two things, not very evident at this time and then also..."it's learning"... when doing that on former ES350 no matter how much I objected over numner of times it was doing it and even though the car had 1100 miles on it at the time. And yes it wil be interesting to find out at some point what the real deal is/was.