Citylights

After driving around with the Michelin All-Season tires for 2,700 miles, I finally changed to the Toyo Summer (OEM) tires.

I really wanted to try some other well-known brand but my choices were limited because of the 215-55-17 size. I also wanted to keep the same size tires to maintain the comfortable ride that I bought the ES 350 for. Anyway, my choice to go with the Toyo's was sealed when my dealership decided to pay for half the cost to change my 4 tires plus the unused spare.

I have had the Summer tires for two weeks now. This has allowed me to drive my car to/from work over the same road surfaces to make a valid comparison between the tires. In addition, I had both sets of tires set at the recommended 30 PSI.

Below are a some of my observations:

Toyo Summer Tires Advantages:

1) Much better braking. This is probably the most noticeable improvement. Stopping distances are definitely shorter. As a result, the car feels a lot safer to drive and more reassuring.

2) Slightly better handling, steering feel is slightly improved. Also, the tires do not squeal easily like the Michelin's.

3) Quieter over concrete surfaces and over expansion joints. This was the main reason why I wanted to change tires in the first place. The Michelin's were simply dreadful and sometimes deafening. Over expansion joints, the Michelin's literally sounded like horses shoes clicking and clacking loudly over the surface!

4) The ride is a tad softer so small bumps are felt less. I know this sounds contradictory to the slightly better handling comment above, but over most surfaces, the ride feels softer to me.


Michelin All-Season Advantages:

1) Better gas mileage. I have noticed a decrease of about 1/2 to 1 mile difference in MPG.

2) Tread life - The Michelin's would likely last twice as long as the Toyo's. Unfortunately, tread life is an inherent weakness in summer tires.


In summary, I am very happy with the change. Not only are the summer tires quieter but the handling is improved as well. My car feels much safer to drive due to the improved performance of the brakes. I know I will probably have to change tires after 15K miles or so but I feel it's definitely worth the cost.

savon

I am thinking to change my tires from michelin to toyo too. When I had my loaner es350 with toyo tires, I experienced exactly the same things that you mentioned. The Michelin tires are very quiet if you drive on asphalt roads. The only concern I have is whether toyo tires are going to maintain its characteristics after 5-10k miles specially at 90-100 degree california summer heat. I had a good experience with Michelins on my camry, once I switched to Pireli, it was only good for first few thousand miles. The tires became hard with tiny craks appearing on sidewalls. Howevere, the treadwear was better than Michelin.
I only have 6k miles on my tires and it looks to me I dont feel the bumps and tire noise as much as before. Maybe, I have got used to it since I drive the same raod every day, or maybe the suspension and tires are breaking in?

jjbodean

i hope the toyos on the 350 are better than they were on the 330, cause those were TERRIBLE

ES350Bob

city..

I am curious about the better braking you listed, simply from changing the rubber on the road?

If stopping distance is that noticeable to you, are you certain they did not adjust the brakes for you and simply not mention that they had?

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

?? Sticky tires are one of the most important components of a good braking system.

ES350Bob

Evidentally they are. It seemed interesting to me that there would be that much difference between Toyos and Michelins to notice it in braking with ABS systems now a days.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

ABS only kicks in after the traction on the tire is starting to let go (meaning lock up)

ES350Bob

As opposed to changing tires to Toyos, do you know if stock brake pads on ES350 allow an upgrade to a different pad if someone prefers slightly more umph to the braking system?

I had read on IS forum I think where pads are stock and better, but the trade off is dust which would not bother me at all for a little more umph to the brakes.

My Michelins are in very good condition with low miles and was thinking maybe the best would be to look into a brake pad change or wait for more wear on these before I go through expense of changing tires.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

I've not read of any aftermarket pads for the ES350, but it's possible they'll be produced.

You are definitely correct on the trade offs on the dust, but with more aggressive pads you also have a much better chance of warping your rotors faster, requiring them to be resurfaced / turned or replaced.

Other additions you can do to the OEM brake setups on other models (again here I don't know if they are available for the ES350 yet) are stainless steel brake lines which can improve the pedal feel, and upgraded brake fluid (to a higher boiling point synthetic type like ATE Superblue, Valvoline Synthetic or others) which will reduce brake fade. Unless you track your ES or do a lot of mountain driving, you're not likely to need that.

Citylights

ES350Bob,

No, they did not adjust the brakes; They simply changed my tires. Summer tires are designed to provide better handling and braking in general at the expense of a shorter tread life. Still, I was surprised with the obvious difference in stopping distances.

ES350Bob

That surprised me too, so noticeable to you that you mentioned it.

Here in my area you have all manner of people that do some really dumb things, tourists mostly, like stop in the middle of a 4 lane highway to check the map, buses that pull out rather than gradually make there way into a lane etc. and if you are behindand there is traffic in front of you like a box truck and cannot see well ahead and those in front of you are slow to notice, then there is brake slamming, I just prefer a little more umph to the brakes as a result.

So your findings got my attention. And Dave's comments I'll look into as to pads, fluid etc. to see if it is something I can do rather than buy all new tires right now.