onsknht

OK... I was down a few days on the ISP end of things here at home. So my home use has been down, mystery issue with my connection, appears good now. Wish I could say the same about the transmission anomoly.

I've done a little more testing, here are my observations.

1. The spike will occur when manually shifted using the sequential mode.... Provided the shift timing conditions are met. In other words, putting it in 2 or 3 defeats the test and slipping into 4th requires the car to want to shift into 4th... More later.

2. Someone who never accelerates beyond 2000 RPM - YET goes faster than 31 MPH will never experience the flair/spike/slip!!! This is a cold condition and the car is not programmed to shift into 4th gear before 31 MPH until a certain temperature is met --->> 3rd gear in this gearbox requires more than 2000 RPM to get to 31 MPH. Watch the video, I was met with another stop sign before the car would shift to 4th <<--- The same stop sign after the flair in my first video!

3. As it has gotten colder and the car is cold-soaked more in the AM... I've gotten the spike/flair/slip to occur on multiple occasions. <<--- It's taking longer to warm the car?

4. This transmission rocks otherwise?

5. I'm still holding out until I have to call the dealer by roadside.

6. It was really, really, really hard to keep the RPMs below 2000.

At any rate... Dial-uppers beware, though I played with the editing a little and made this one around 6MB... Also, I didn't talk as much (I sound like that?) so I could (over my movement noises) convey the cold start cabin noise. FWIW - the piston slap is clearly heard.

2GR-FE-and-U660E.LS.LQ.wmv

onsknht

Sorry, to follow up on #1 if I wasn't clear later... Using sequential mode will allow the shift flair to occur, but certain conditions must be met before the car will shift to 4th gear. The most obvious is a warm-up code that will not allow a shift from 3rd to 4th until 31 MPH is achieved.

In brief what this means...

You cannot force the car to go into 4th gear.

BTW - this was a disappointment for me with the sequetial shift... I have run into many situations where I would like to start the car off in 2nd or 3rd gear, like in snow, uphill.

wanderer99

Another awesome video - well done. I liked the intro graphics too

amf1932

I enjoyed this video, and appreciated the time it took to make it. I had my eyes glued to the tach, but I didn't think that this flair would be any cause for concern because it was so slight. In the past, I've driven many makes of cars, both imported and domestic that exhibited this type of "flair" and it was NO indication that the transmission was going to crap out sooner then expected. I wouldn't jump to judgement unless this "flair" increased to at least 2000 rpm between gear shifts. That's my opinion.

ES350Bob

I have never driven any other car that does this, and this sample he did was intentionally the most minimal he could achieve to display a range to give others an idea of how it can start out then progress to more severe and also how application of fuel can display differently as well.

I have driven several Hondas, MB, Lincoln, Lexus- older ES, early on used Mazdas, 2 Cutlass and NOT one of them every did this nor any other automatic trans car I have ever ridden in or heard except one that needed transmission fluid and one whose transmission was shot.

It is totally unacceptable, yet seems acceptable for others to have it by those who do not have it.

terryes

Manual

ES350Bob

Yes, thanks to the ECT we may no longer have to suffer shift shock, now if they could just get rid of, once and for all, the "Slip Shock" then we are going places.

onsknht

Thanks again fellas for the positive comments on my videography... While I'm no professional, I try, so it's good you fellas notice.

At any rate, this video inspired me to "lob" some correspondence to my dealer... I say lob because I haven't been in there to discuss the problem, but instead sent them (via email) the links to my videos and asked, "What's Up?"

My rationale being that I have this completely documented and am in no way going to accept the routine stop gaps before a solution is presented... I'm sure we're all familiar with these?

1. Could not Reproduce
2. TSB
3. Any other time absorbing activity that really doesn't solve the problem

Hopefully, and I think I succeeded... I've put them on point as they've yet to respond. Last time I sent them an email (when I inquired about buying the car) they contacted me within 10 minutes of hitting 'send.'

I think they may be stymied?

coolcow

onsknht,

Thanks for your video. It is really nice. My es 350 has this flare one day, but between 2nd and 3rd gears. Though, it only happens one day. I haven't been able to reproduce the symptom ever since...

ES350Bob

cool...,

If I remember right, your's did this where you said going up a hill or hilly area near your home, maybe, just maybe, it decided to downshift you on you which caused what appeared as a flare but is simply due to that and is not the problem kind.

My former car most often slipped 2 to 3 though unusual it seems for those gears compared to everybody else reporting but it also slipped the classic 3 to 4.

It would also decide on it's own to downshift while going steady 35mph and that could seem similar to a flare but I didn't classify that like I do what I call the problem kind that happens during an acceleration process.

TRI H2O

I have had the flare shift daily as I pull away from home in the morning. However, last three mornings have tried something new, which happens to fit in with the street patterns I take. After about 30 seconds of driving I have to make a left turn and then drive 100 yards to a stop sign. Previously (driving normally) the car never shifts into 4th before the stop sign. At the stop sign, I enter a highway and when shifting from 3-4 the flare occurs.

For the last three mornings, when making the right turn before the stop sign I hammer the gas more than usual in the 100 yards to the stop sign. The car doesn't shift out of third yet, but rpms are up to around 3000. After the stop, when entering the highway, I can hit the gas as hard as I want and the car will now shift from 3-4 without the flare. It is seems to take is a little more racious driving inititally in third. Weird, but fits the street patterns.

onsknht

You've warmed the car up... I've said from the beginning, start the car and let it run for a bit (in my case about 2 minutes) and the flair will not occur.

This is why I've been so adament about this being a programming issue... Somewhere along the way, the program is getting confused between shifting to 4th OR staying in 3rd OR Going to a "nuetral' default because it senses something "odd."

Finally... I thoroughly agree that many don't ever experience this because of the way they drive thier car... Provided the "program" assumes the car is warm enough and the "user" hasn't "requested" 4th gear yet, the anomoly will never occur?

TRI H2O

Not really warming up any differently except for a 10 second burst from a stop sign to 3000 rpm in 3rd gear. This is enough to fool the programming so that the tranny will not slip on the first 3-4 shift. Total engine time from start up is less than 1 minute. I never let the car sit and warm up.

Totally agree that it is a programming error. Too much fuzz in the fuzzy logic!

onsknht

Hey, could you elaborate a little more on this 10 second burst?

Are you imlying from a stop you're able to start the car in 3rd gear? *OR* Are you rolling through a stop sign in 3rd and giving a good straight away goose, thereby holding 3rd gear?

FWIW - my car sat all day yesterday and two nights we've been well below freezing at night, I started it today and let it run while I goofed around... No flair today.

TRI H2O

I stop the car at the stop sign then drive off, but a heavy on the gas until the car is doing about 3000 rpm in 3rd at which time I let of the gas (about 10 seconds. The car then rolls to a stop at the next stop sign. Then I head out on the highway and no matter how hard I floor it the 3-4 shift is smooth without the flare.

If I just drive normal (without punching the throttle) from the first stop sign taking it easy, then when I head out on to the highway I always get the 3-4 flare (higher rpm flare with heavier acceleration).

I know we shouldn't have to drive a specific way to avoid the flare, but the fact it is possible indicate, to me, a programming error in the tranny logic controller.