wanderer99

I'm coming to the conclusion that there are actually two separate wind noise issues in the ES350. I've re-read some of the comments here where people were dismissed as not having the noise because they didn't have it at lower speeds. So I'd like to ask those people to post again, and describe what they're hearing, as well as their build dates.

Here is what I've found on my car:
Lower speeds: Starts around 35-45mph. Sounds like wind blowing on a sail, strong crosswind, driving into a headwind, an air leak, or maybe a whistling type sound. Increases as your speed increases. Sounds like it is originating at the front mirrors, although it can also be at head height, or even at the rear of the front windows - or all of the above! Cause was the window not sealing correctly against the window gasket. Window was shimmed by the dealer (thanks gappell) and I'm actually happy that this works now.

Higher speeds: Starts around 70mph and at 80mph its loud. Both sides of vehicle affected. Sounds like excessive wind noise in general, and seems to come from the upper portion to the top of the A pillar itself. I thought this was the window\door seal but I was wrong. I taped the entire window surround up, as well as the door to the body, and even around the top of the windshield and it did nothing. The excessive wind noise continued and didn't change at all. Which is why I think it must be inside the A pillar.

But these are absolutely two different issues. The first issue can be dealt with with tape or shims to isolate it. The second problem I can't seem to stop at all or even reduce it. I'm stumped on this one. Dreyfus mentioned in a post here that his car had the plugs missing from the bottom of his vehicle and this was dealer corrected.

For those with the 'higher speed' issue, does this sound like what you have? Is your vehicle quiet until around 70mpg and then starts to have this issue? My car is 04/06.

e-man

I don't have an ES, but I can tell you that the plugs (or the absence of them) will drastically affect "wind noise." The reason I put wind noise in quotes is because it's really not wind noise at all. From what I understand, the undercarriage of the car has holes in the sheet metal. These holes are what allow the chassis to be held in place as the car travels down the assembly line. Once the car is assembled, the holes are filled with rubber plugs. When the plugs fall out, air tends to rush up through the holes (primarily at highway speeds), and the air travels up through the a-pillars, masquerading as wind noise. It's really not wind noise, but it sounds like it based on its location. You should definitely check to see if you're missing any plugs.

e

wanderer99

Any clues on where to look for this? Is there a usual spot where these plugs are located?

ES350Bob

Wanderer,

I don't have wind noise involving the mirrors.

Lower speeds approaching 40 to 45 there is wind noise worsening the faster you go.

At 65mph to 70 is when the worst of it would be present but resetting all window gaskets minimized mine, now only once in while there is that high pressure nozzle volume where before at 65mph to 70 it was constant and so bad you'd do anything to cease it, like rolling windows down which never worked and slowing down the car.

I know you said dealer added shims. Try asking dealer to reset all window gaskets by rolling down window, then pulling gasket material down out of it's channel with slight pressure forward to front of car and then let rolling the windows up reset them by top edge of window pushing them back into their channels as opposed to just pulling them down and out and pushing them back in by hand. Letting the window glass itself set them minimized the higher speed noise.

If I'm not mistaken your shims were added to top of door gaskets which may have helped other noise, resetting the actual window gaskets may help your problem even more until Lexus comes up with a real solution.

e-man

Hey Wanderer. I've gotta run to work, so I don't have time to do a search, but there's a post on the 2GS forum from a few years back by a guy with the screen name of SeattleGS400. He took several pictures of the locations of the plugs (on the 2GS) and it might help you locate yours. Basically, the problematic ones are usually about 1 foot behind each of the front wheels, set in about 1 to 1.5 feet from the side of the car. Just look in that area to see whether you have any holes that aren't plugged. You'll see the plugs if they're there. They are about the size of 1/2 dollars and are made of black rubber.

onsknht

FWIW - - These rubber plugs are a PDI item on the Camry as well as the tire spats in front of all four tires... Dealerships are selling so many Camrys, the apprentice technicians that do odd jobs like PDI cars get lazy and forget to add these pieces to the undercarriage... Not sure what goes on in a Lexi dealership, but there's been numerous Camry owners that have found the "spare parts" in their trunk.

ES350Bob

e-man.

I looked under my car and those plugs are easy to see that you are talking about. Mine are all there on both sides.

It is interesting those could add to wind noise if missing.

After first dealer said nothing short of a design change could fix the wind noise my Dad reset all window gaskets letting glass of window top/sides push them back into channels. I had not driven the car up to speed upon it's return from dealer before my Dad did what he did so don't know if they had noticed what you are talking about and plugged them but I don't think they did and not have said something to me about correcting it rather than the design change solution they offered as the only fix for it. Afterward I did and the worst of the worst wind noise is intermittant now, minimized in general.

wanderer99

When I read the words "PDI" above I just hung my head. I kind of laugh at my PDI because I still have some factory clear plastic at the front of my console, and also had two thin yellow rubber strips in the rear of the car - one hanging below the passenger seat, one on the rear parcel shelf. And of course my tire pressures were all crazy. I knew all these were from the vehicle not being PDI'd properly, and thought it would be amusing to show the Lexus rep someday the "PDI" on my vehicle.

Off Topic: I saw my vehicle for the first time at my dealer late at night a few days before I took delivery. I knew it was my car from the VIN and the paperwork I already had. I was horrified when I looked inside and saw the doors seemed to be unlocked. I pulled the door handle and presto - the door opens. There were 2 other ES350's there as well for other customers and all were unlocked. It was their very first customer shipment and obviously the Lexus delivery guys had no idea how to lock the cars. There was plastic on the seats, stickers on the glass, etc. We tried to lock the doors, then close the door but it wouldn't work - it would just unlock itself again. I called my salesman from the dealer yard (the dealership was closed) and he said don't worry, it will just be fine. I was freaking out that my brand new car is totally unlocked at the front of the dealership. In the end we had to leave the car there just unlocked for anyone to jump in\out until the dealer opened again. My wife and I were NOT happy. So you can see why I hung my head above when I read PDI.

On Topic: Guess what. I'm missing a plug. Exactly where you guys said it would be. Drivers side only from what I can see. It's the rear of the front two plugs.

I'm only seeing two plugs on each side - is there more??

glock22x

Hey wanderer99,

Just wondering, where did you get your car from in B.C.? In Vancouver, Richmond or somewhere else?

nstan20

On an earlier post I indicated that I also was having a problem with wind noise. After a couple of trips to the service department, I finally convinced them to shim the windows. This took care of about 75% of the wind noise. This morning I checked to see if the rubber plugs were missing. Three of the four holes did not have the rubber plugs in them. I found two of the plugs up inside the holes. I reinstalled them. Two holes on the driver's side are now covered and one hole on the passenger's side is now covered. Will report back, probably on Sunday, letting you know if this makes any difference.

ES350Bob

nstan,

After reading your post I went and looked at mine again due to the numbers of them you mentioned causing me to think maybe I didn't check good enough.

Also I had thought that E-man's post about half dollar size was a design change for those with ES350 because the ones i saw were at best dime size or nickel.

Turns out there are two half dollar size within roughly 6 inches from edge on both sides of car and several in a row further in and also on both sides of the car.

Mine all seem present, and none were up inside needing reset.

ES350Bob

Wanderer, e-man, nstan

Half dollar plugs upside down?

I just pulled out the driver's side half dollar size one in the front to see if it duplicates the worst of the worst high pressure nozzle sound that is now minimized and intermittent since two things happened. I'll drive it soon to report that but check this out:

First it went to dealer way back when and upon it's return my Dad reset all window gaskets BEFORE I got it back up to speed to see if my Dad achieved anything which he did, minimizing most of the worst of the worst, only intermittant now.

Since I pulled the one half dollar gasket out though I noticed they all seem to have been put in UPSIDE down maybe, and that is a very big maybe.

You will see writing on one side and blank on other. The writing side faces down on all my half dollar ones.

I had taken one out as I said and looking at it noticed it could be placed in opposite direction, writing side in. I tried that and it FITS great that way and even recesses into dimple of metal, rather than leaving just under a 1/4 inch edge hanging out or down.

Also it would be more difficult to get it to go up inside that way, and might explain why nstan found his inside.


If I'm right, getting it up to speed(s), if they are upside down it would let wind seep in better than the way I noticed you could use these plugs which oddly snuggles right into metal dimple leaving little edge in windstream.

Mine might have been missing and dealer just didn't want to let me know but put them in without saying anything except upside down, my Dad might be the sharp old guy I know him to be and it doesn't matter which way is up with these things, or these things have been upside down from the get go!!!

e-man

Hey Bob and others. I found the thread I was looking for by SeattleGS400. I'd be interested to hear back from you guys to see if the missing plugs were part of the problem. Here's the link.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...threadid=70515

Bob, like I said, the plugs are about the size of half dollars. The side facing upward has a circular raised portion (that's smaller than the overall diameter of the plug) that fits exactly inside the hole on the underside of the car. The remainder of the plug (i.e., not the raised circular part) overlaps the rest of hole. If someone could post a picture of one of these things, it would be easier to describe. I don't know how you could install one of these things upside down unless you folded the plug in half, inserted it completely through the hole, and then tried to pull the raised portion of the plug back down through the hole in order to secure it in place. If someone has a picture of the plug, please post it up and my explanation will seem more clear.

EDIT -- there are pictures of the GS plugs in the above link. Is this what your guys' plugs look like?

ES350Bob

e-man.

My plugs were all put in UPSIDE down according to the above.

The widest diameter of all material on plug is up inside the hole on all 4 of them, the smaller diameter raised area about a 1/4 inch is facing down on all my plugs except the one I have inside the house with me right now.

These are very soft and very flexible rubber like material and some person could do them as mine are because of it.

You are sharp to have even brought the plugs up. I'm willing to bet far more than me have the plugs upside down or they are missing.

It will take a while to report back on driving up to speed having removed the one I have, just for extra I'm going to remove the second one on driver's side too before I do the high pressure nozzle as constant test.

Upside down I can see where it would go intermittant or minimized if dealer did it without saying a word about them not doing the predelivery correctly if this is even part of that predelivery thing and they could get in trouble with Lexus for not doing it.

Other than that there is wind noise from around window gaskets too.

Will report back, but glad I popped one out.

e-man

Bob-- I'd love to take credit for bringing up the plugs as a possible culprit, but I can't because Wanderer first mentioned it above. I just can't believe that I didn't think of it sooner. I've been following all of these ES350 wind noise threads very closely as the ES350 will most likely be my next car. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to deal with wind noise on my 98 GS (I currently have a 99). After a lot of research, I stumbled across several threads regarding missing "plugs", and I had finally found the solution. Of course, my dealership could not solve the problem and had no idea where to look. When I told them that I fixed it myself, they were completely dumbfounded and claimed that they had never heard of these plugs or the fact that they sometimes fall out. Now, when customers bring their cars into my Lexus dealership complaining of wind noise, this is the first thing the techs look for (thanks to me).

I still can't believe that yours were installed upside down. I mean, you'd literally have to go out of your way to put them in that way. It's completely moronic.

If anyone is not sure whether you have this problem, just go under your car, pop out a few plugs and drive around for a while on the highway. The difference is like night and day.