ES350Bob

Has anyone else had repairs denied by Lexus corporate or feel they were given odd explanations or misrepresentations about their vehicle concerns?

Coincidentally(?), all my repairs were denied, all my standing diagnosis changed within a week and a half of my taking a friend's strong and repeated suggestion of e-mailing officials in Japan, Chairman and President of Toyota, copy below, and I have never been contacted as a result of my e-mail sent to them September 18, my repairs denied, standing diagnosis of any and all defects changed to no defects present on September 27 instead. I did not expect the reaction of denial of everything as I don't feel my writing to Japan was anything rude, just expressing my being upset and at wits end and I even feel I gave some helpful suggestions in additional comments.

I have seen similar complete vanishing of established defect diagnosis resulting in denial of repairs or explanations given owners posted on here regarding their valves and learning comments about transmission slipping respectively.

Just what is going on here and to how many is this happening and what is the motive for this?

In my case and others posted by members, there is vanishing of established diagnosis, no repairs offered or authorized by Lexus and PLEASE NOTICE the, I believe, well established pattern of intentional use of limiting or minimizing of issue dialogue placed in service documents just as kept happening to me with svc. notes. Very minimizing adjectives used in documentation and if not that, then there was missing data completely, all of which I described to officials in Japan 18 September, then see member post below dated several days after my writing, there is that, call it what you want, odd minimizing, or non-inclusion of pertinent info or claim of could not duplicate phenomena I routinely experienced.

From poll of problems with your ES350..posted 9/22/06--{{{{{riley2620 "Diesel engine noise - the technician definitely heard it and told me it was a "valve train" problem. He would check it out and get back to me. The service rep calls me later that afternoon and says the cold start clatter is normal - due to the timing chain and is of no concern. (Interestingly enough - the rep put on the paperwork that they "were unable to duplicate the noise I was complaining about",}}}}}

From transmission issue post 9/28/06--{{{{PDG810810 "I told the dealer and he mentioned a TSB, I took it in and they replaced some sort of valve. The problem is not fixed, the service dept. told me to wait since the transmission needs to learn your driving habits ect.
Well, it has been 2 weeks and I still have slippage."}}}}}

I was subjected to very similar circumstances regarding my engine noise and transmission, other, roughly a week and a half after I had sent the E-mail to officials in Japan via Lexus Australia about my horrible experiences with and loss of trust in Lexus corporate USA and my car's defects and my disappointment to point of wanting to trade my car. All of a sudden every repair I had been diagnosed as having needed or told would be done if they were given my permission to proceed, was DENIED me, every thing this car does was told to me is normal for an ES350 including the absurd it's normal for the wipers to rock my car back and forth even though loaner did not do this, no comment on that. In my case two independent professionals I hired and a Lexus dealer svc. manager and shop tech foreman had all in the weeks, month plus, prior focused on valves as problematic and diagnosed their direct involvement in my engine noise and need for repair. The FTS sent by Lexus NEVER lifted my hood, he just sat in the back seat passenger side for a drive, later in svc. office insisted he heard nothing abnormal coming from the engine, he did not say that while in the car with me when it WAS knocking and tapping. The only time he drove my car was when I asked him to late in the drive in order for him to notice the veering steering, which he claimed wasn't that at all, and then it DID it to him, so he barely allowed that, but even that has the classic minimizing content in documentation and here it is..."as a precautionary measure we could inspect alignment of vehicle"...doesn't say a word about it veering right on him, not even that it was even slightly duplicated, just dialogue of ...as a precautionary.... they'd check it out.

Same for transmission, now told "don't believe it's slipping," told "it's learning not slipping," with the Lexus FTS REFUSING to listen to 2 recordings I had made to capture the engine noise but had managed to catch the transmission slipping twice, recorded days apart. You can hear what I believe anyone would describe as a classic sound of a transmission slipping on the recordings and was deemed such by dealer svc. tech foreman who listened weeks before, but not if you refuse to listen to them as was weeks later done to me on 27th by Lexus FTS. Just kept being told it was learning, also I believe lied to in being told my car had it's TSIB in Japan during it's manufacture, he ended up backing off his certainty of that, but not before he claimed it to me to my objections based on what it does. Build date June, TSIB issued August 2. Diagnosed as a transmission defect by a Lexus V.P. in mid August, also findings listed as erratic shifting with engine surging, other, by one independent opinion I got, with the other one, when witnessing the slipping and the engine revving and tach spike during a drive with me, stating his opinion it is likely both the transmission and also a software problem.

Result: Official claim by Lexus my car is perfect as is, and represents the normal state and normal operation for an ES350, all repairs DENIED except the precautionary will check the alignment.

I would sincerely like to know who else has had or is having similar experiences and what you feel is left for you to do about it or you feel is appropriate to do next.
Subj: Lexus USA, Third Time Lexus Customer
Date: Monday, September 18, 2006 7:52:38 AM
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.XXXXX.au
XXXXXXXXXXX...I feel at wits end with Lexus USA over my vehicle and have experienced things no business should subject a customer to, certainly not having received my business in excess of 100,000 dollars U.S. in the last 12 plus years. XXXXXXXXX...For this reason I wish to make officials in Japan aware of my experiences and resulting intentions and I thought this may be possible if my summary of events could be forwarded to...

Chairman and President of Toyota:
Dear Sirs,
I purchased my third Lexus on July 25, an 07 ES350.
It was given me in need of a valve job that will require shims be added to the valves which I noticed as a diesel engine like knocking tapping noise one could hear in the car the morning of the first full day I owned it. At that time it registered roughly 88 miles, I had picked it up the prior late afternoon/evening. In the week(s) that followed it developed a transmission problem. From day one it had/has excessive wind noise at speed, starting around 40 to 45 mph and worsening as you go faster, other issues like that I call nuisance items now rather than view them as serious save maybe my lingering concern over the suspension allowing even the wipers to rock the car back and forth as you are driving down the road but still I view even that now as more of a nuisance item where engine and transmission are more alarming to me.
Over a month ago, on August 1, I contacted Lexus corporate to address my engine and other concerns, ultimately also my transmission concerns.
In contacting Lexus corporate for help I was told I would be called by a case manager in 2 days. On the third day I called again to inquire when I would hear from this case manager and was told either the next day Saturday or on the Monday. Each time it never happened. At 13 days I was finally contacted. At least a half dozen times since, the same exact pattern of misleading commitments with no follow through has occurred, each time I have had to chase them to do as they offered to do as to communication or other action offered. Twice told I would be scheduled for a vehicle inspection, one of those times told would receive an inspection within the week and twice never even called and certainly no inspection occurred several weeks ago as stated would happen. This is a chronic pattern. It is to the point of absurd the treatment received.
I do not believe this deplorable lack of follow through is unique to me, I strongly believe it is happening to many Lexus owners who otherwise felt they could rely on, depend on, and trust Lexus corporate when they made first contact. It is dishonest to do this, certainly so to repeatedly tell people you will contact them, you will arrange things and then never follow through.
If you conducted totally independent research focusing the research on those case managers and V.P. supervisors who are supposed to help your customers, your repeat customers, when one phones the 800 number, particularly polling those customers on the eastern seaboard of the USA as myself who needed a case manager for vehicle defects and V.P supervisor, you will very likely discover it commonplace that many have also been repeatedly deceived, forced into having to continuously repeat the otherwise should have been clearly known, clearly documented defects of their vehicle, stalled for more than a month and perhaps worse treatment than my own. And sadly you will likely discover that many like myself are planning on moving to other manufacturers as a result. As sad over having to do it, as perplexed and angry over the entirety of events associated with it as I myself am currently.
Currently, I am trying to understand why any Lexus owner, let alone a 3 time Lexus owner, is in a car with an engine needing a valve job requiring shims be added to the valves at portside delivery and a transmission which slips gears 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 over a month after a Lexus V.P. is aware of it?
I have been made to feel like one has to fight to make Lexus do what any reputable company would do and continuously have to repeat myself over and over again where serious problems about the car are concerned and they should be known and established. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, finding me languishing on an ES350 owners website getting no call from or help from Lexus....XXXXX... instigating first contact.
I will include an ES350 owners poll from an owners website below though it is not rigidly scientific as a poll it gives a glimpse perhaps of what other Lexus customers may be experiencing, and if they are calling about their problems too and how awful if they are also experiencing what I am from Lexus corporate which I strongly suspect.
XXXXXXXXXXXXX In contrast the Lexus dealer who sold it to me wanted me to wait 9 days for service and to drive it over to them 9 days later, I refused because they had offered door to door service to get me to buy from them, they drove over and picked it up 9 days later, driving it back.
My car now has over 900 miles on it riding around with bad valves, other, because I have been forced to having been initially deceived about it's difficulties requiring me second opinions at my own expense and perpetually deceived for over a month about actions to be taken by Lexus USA.
I have recently taken matters into my own hand, directly communicating with your Atlanta division to get my vehicle repaired so it is mechanically sound enough to trade as the recently offered last week total solution to my car of a gear 3 to 4 TSIB repair omitted any consideration for the established fact my car engine needs a valve job and slips gears 2 to 3 as well as 3 to 4 which I had to repeat and I am tired of repeating myself to Lexus corporate California. They do not listen, they do not thoroughly document or research so I don't have to repeat myself over and over again, they do not care enough to even place a call when they volunteer they will and I will not chase them again to do as they should.
Thank you for your time, owners poll and more detail on my own vehicle and experiences along with my observations follows though the base of my reason for writing is above. I felt you should be aware of reasons why a person who had viewed your vehicle, your company as the best is now feeling as though needing to take steps to trade to another manufacturer.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXX, Florida, USA,. Ph# XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. E-mail XXXXXXXXXXXX

ES350 Owners Site Poll as of 18 September
View Poll Results: Multiple Choice:
What problems do you have with your 2007 ES350?
Transmission shift flaring 17 25.76%
Cold engine start noise 8 12.12%
Wind noise 15 22.73%
Interior rattles 15 22.73%
Voice Recognition for climate control 18 27.27%
I have none of the problems listed above 21 31.82%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 66.

Additional Comments
Please note the engine and transmission items below I view as very serious and other items listed are under the nuisance category, not something I would have a fit about but just decided to list my observations. Also there seems this extraordinary effort to describe serious problems by using very minimizing dialogue or what appears minimizing content in service documents by many associated with Lexus. E.G., excessive wind noise is called buffeting, valve problem called very slight though clearly loud enough to have been diagnosed from the back seat of the vehicle, transmission not very evident, as long as you ignore the word of a Lexus customer and two recordings of it slipping gears not placed in documentation, and there are other examples of this minimizing dialogue, limited documentation.

Valve problem: Diagnosed from the back seat of my car by a Lexus service manager with a shop tech foreman in the front with me, the hood never needed to be lifted and was not, one can clearly hear this noise in the car with AC on and conversation about the noise occurring, yet it was noted in vehicle documentation as very slight valve lash. Prior had been rudely deceived by original dealer who sold me the car claiming both the dealership and Lexus over the phone say it is normal to hear diesel engine like knocking and tapping noise in the car, "it's a piston with normal clearance" and..."Don't you realize you have to have had everything turned off in the car in order for you to have brought us this complaint." I did not address him for his outright lie to me to the degree I might otherwise have though did object because he said Lexus backs us up having called Lexus on the phone about my car. You never have to have everything turned off in the car to hear this engine problem anyway and it is not some piston with normal clearance as he claimed and claimed on behalf of Lexus.
My Observation: If technicians are not setting valve clearance in Japan, elsewhere, with work load stress on engine as would be similar stress load with driving or engine testing is done without work load stress on the engine this may explain why some engines arrive in cars here with valve problems because at idle or park you need super hearing to catch the noise outside the vehicle where simply add stress of workload on the engine as would be in driving the car and the noise is loud and unmistakably present and easy to hear inside the car.
Transmission problem recordings: I had made a recording(s) under the hood to capture the diesel engine knocking tapping sound of the engine for a Lexus technician to review it if opportunity presented itself, without intent also captured the transmission slipping gears 2 to 3. Shop foreman in reviewing the recording could clearly hear the transmission slipping in the recording he listened to as he mentioned it. Yet noted as transmission problem not very evident at this time with no mention of existing recording of it slipping provided in documentation. Though not of professional quality I had allowed Lexus might be interested in reviewing the recordings since many vehicles have this diesel engine sound and also my car slips 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 maybe something new Lexus might appreciate being formally aware of, I still have them.

Breaking the car against spiking RPM: To me, it is unusual for an automatic transmission to spike the RPM 400 or more RPM as a stick shift would when downshifting too soon, but, there are times when adding the break to come to a stop this RPM spike actually feels as though it is working against breaking the car to a stop. It really does seem to me to slightly fight against breaking the car though the breaks end up winning the battle.

Wipers rock car back and forth when on high: Noticed this in a rain storm, I thought the road was very bad and uneven left to right side of road causing same on car until stop light, realized it wasn't the road causing car to rock it was the wipers and experience seemed more intense at stop light.
My Observation: Wipers positioning at factory are set at what appears correct position on dry windshield(?), when raining though, they over extend repeatedly hitting the pillar on drivers side. Prior I had mentioned my shocks seem weak, especially rear shocks, so suspension issue may play a role here but a wiper hitting a pillar isn't helping either.

Steering drifts or boats left to right: Depending on the road surface, certainly road slope, the car drifts left or right, at times as though in bad need of an alignment job, there is even at times a very noticeable directional pressure against hands on steering wheel so far most noticeable when veering right.
My Observation: This is far less so if at all at significant speed, more so in lessor speeds around 45 mph. There may be many reasons this occurs but one might on some level be it seems rotation specific rims have been placed on the vehicle as standard and they are used incorrectly depending on which side of the vehicle they are placed. They are not aerodynamically neutral rims thereby allowing for a high and low pressure side, side of car specific. I believe a slope to a road or even a mild cross wind would cause a drifting or boating of steering with rims as are on the vehicle. There is a wider leading edge on drivers side to spokes and a thinner leading edge on passenger side of vehicle. Where it seems non rotation specific rims should be aerodynamically neutral. The rims are nice looking though.

Excessive wind noise: Whether called buffeting as minimizing dialgoue, or called by what it is, excessive wind noise, there is no question the vehicle has a wind noise issue coming from around the windows on both sides of the car. Original dealer said nothing short of a design change will fix it, second dealer called it buffeting which means there is nothing that can be done about it; yet, I have seen postings from other owners where very resourceful dealers have added shims under the gaskets to minimize it. My own elderly father, at 87 with a can do attitude and angry at dealer’s lack of any effort, reset all the window gaskets in my car allowing the windows to reset them having pulled them out of their channels first and rolling the window up to force them back in letting the window itself seat them. That helped to minimize it somewhat, so there are things that can be done, more could be done if not for excuse making or intentional use of minimizing dialogue to customers.

Wipers scrape paint off back edge of hood: Unless you know for certain to never lift wipers unless you first click them into snow or winter mode, you will scrape the paint off the back edge of hood of car. Owners may be made aware of this (I was not made aware of this but didn't scrape any paint) but not those people at Mall parking lots, elsewhere, that love to lift them to shove their printed advertisement flyers under, also car wash people may not know to not do this. It seems several owners have done this and others have had this happen at Mall parking.
My Observation: This design should be redone so this never happens. Minimally each and every customer must have it made very clear to them they will scrape off the paint of the back edge of hood if not very cautious.

amf1932

At this point, my suggestion to you is to get a lawyer, or sell the car.

After reading your long post I feel that you're never going to be happy with this vehicle.

ES350Bob

True, I'm not at all happy with this vehicle's issues, nobody would be, though still happy for you that you got one without issues.

If you had one like mine, Riley's, NGG's you'd likely be looking for reasons, looking for guidance from others who experience the same things you would be experiencing if in the same boat, as a means of figuring out excatly what to do, or so shocked you are seeking understanding period.

Given Celibon's poll reflects less than a third of member recipients are getting defect free cars and 2/3 are getting cars with defects that's a lot of vehicle trading or lawyer getting if their problems continue like mine have or they too are denied repairs until the defect actually disables the car.

BTW: When you do engage in trading discussions as a possible option they SURE do wonder why anyone would be trading a BRAND NEW vehicle and the cost is several thousands of dollars, actually they get suspicious of the fact the thing is brand spanking new and then ask what's wrong with it.

spwolf

Sorry dude, I laughed at you before, I am laughing at you now

As I told you before, things you mention - wipers rocking the car because of defective and weak back suspension that might fail, are so out of mind, that I dont even bother reading your posts anymore.

I suggest that when you try to sell your car, dont mention wipers rocking it because of weak suspension... it might ruin the sale...

psp

Hi Bob,

Wow, I am glad I do not have the issues you do. Apart from some creeks in the dashboard, and perceived wind noise (not a wind howl or whistle, but louder than I want it to be at 65, I prefer dead quiet -- but as others have said you to to hear sirens and horns) I am satisfied with the car.

My Lexus Story (Please note when I refer to the radio I am referring to the ML sound system, a very expensive option).

I had a problem with the radio in that, in the morning or when cold, the right front passenger speaker would cut out and then, as the car would warm up it would intermittently, and then fully, come back to life. Lexus had the car a week and replaced the amp which did not change anything. Lexus had the car another week and said they could not duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. I picked up the car and made a very nice "huge stink" to the service manager. They had the car another week and found that there was a loose connection. They sublet it out to an independent shop and they changed the connectors. They also blamed the problem on a after market iPod integration device. The independent shop replaced the iPod integration device with an "upgraded unit" (unauthorized). The car was returned to me -- the radio worked fine but now the Navigation GPS did not work (the car was "lost" in the middle of San Francisco Bay) and the iPod integration device no longer had file functionality. They had also moved the Sirius antenna to the roof line from the trunk lid (unauthorized).

Here is the outright lies I was told. First, the service adviser said that the intermittent operation of the speaker was due to the signal the radio was getting via the antenna. Second, regarding the GPS, he said that the iPod integration unit was incompatible with the Navigation GPS (even though I had the unit installed in July and they were working fine together when I brought the car in). The biggest lie of all was that he told me that if I wanted Lexus to look into why the GPS was not working it would NOT be covered under warranty and they would not give me a free loaner.

After raising the stink they discovered that while putting in the new connections for the radio they neglected to reconnect the GPS lead to the Navigation unit. No apology or admission of fault, and certainly concern for my time or inconvenience.

I know this sounds trivial compared to the issues you are having and I hope that you are able to get your issues either rectified, that the car is replaced or that Lexus does the honorable thing and take back the car and allow you to get another model that is more satisfactory.

I will tell you one thing. Last night I had a friend drive the car and I sat in the passenger seat. He is a professional mechanic and drives a new Honda Odyssey. I didn't tell him anything about the car because I wanted him to let me know if there were any issues. He was blown away by the quality of the vehicle, the power of the engine, and smoothness of the ride. I was also impressed by the way the car responded from my perspective in the passenger seat (it is different than in the drivers seat). That was reassuring. One thing I did note was that the sub woofer was bottoming out. I had the car in for a 5000 mile service on Friday. I checked the equalizer controls and they were all boosted to max and I usually run them in the middle range. I did not know that the 5000 mile service included an adjustment to the radios equalizer. Ya live and learn.

PS. Thanks for the information about handbills and the windshild wipers. How do you move the wipers to another position? Also what do we do when some meter maid nicks my hood putting a parking ticket on the windshield?

ES350Bob

As I mentioned to you in your numerous responses to my posts of this kind, if you have something constructive to post I'd appreciate that, not this pattern of this type of response.

My serious concerns are and always have been the engine defect and the transmission defect. The wipers, the wind noise, the steering veering hard right, any rattles, any other issues I have viewed and do view as nuisance items and never claimed them as major.

I will say that wipers rocking a car back and forth, noticeable as you are driving it down the road and more so when you have come to a stop is not normal. If you read my post you would see where the loaner I drove out in a rainstorm did NOT do it and if you read on here many owners have said their car does not do it.

If you owned an ES350 maybe your input on here and the type of responses you are posting to me would be different.

ES350Bob

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences Pete and I am glad for you that other than issues over radio you have a good car.

The wipers: you just grab them, one of them will do, passenger side wiper so far with me, and push them upward and they will click into winter mode. Do NOT lift them as you are pushing them upward across glass of windshield.

Once you have done that, you are free to lift them away from the windshield without them scratching the paint off back edge of hood.

To get them back where they belong, reverse the process, push them downward against the glass of windshield and they will click back into regular mode.

A little umph is required so don't worry about breaking them, grab where the blade attaches to more robust arm.

I wish you continued good luck with your car.

Macklin

Bob, life's too short man! Get rid of this car!!

ES350Bob

Thanks Macklin,

Now if only I can go to a dealer who doesn't ask me why I am trading a brand new car and instead says something like if you can just roll it in here we'll give you ....X amount of dollars on a trade....LOL...

but they ASK and that is the most awkward spot to be in as stating it's fine according to Lexus doesn't or won't cut it if they drive it and it does it's diesel engine thing when hot which it now does at times or heaven forbid does it's "learning" transmission thing on them and slips when they are evaluating it for trade...LOL...

It is the most awkward position to be in as part of some resolution process, but I'll figure out what to do.

Macklin

Bob, I feel for you. I don't have any of the issues you have and I can't imagine having all of them in one car. I will admit that I am not happy AT ALL with this new 6 speed tranny. And I highlighted that in my recent owners survey. Had similar issues with my ES300 and would have thought they would have engineered a better one by now. But...overall I'm surrounded by luxury and love it. I'm sorry you are not experiencing the same.

ES350Bob

Macklin,

Thanks for your additional comments,

I prior owned 2 different ES300 and I LOVED those cars. The first I had leased and liked it so much I bought it out at the end of the lease and yeah paid a little more than I should have for it, but it was because it was an awesome car and I was in a hurry and not in the frame of mind to kick it's tires to get a better buyout price. Plus I had said to dealer finance guy and sales manager how wonderful the car is/was, so tire kicking might have lost it to me and my compliments on it too let them know I loved the car...LOL

My second ES300, the same, though it did have it's oil gell and needed a valve job but still I loved that car too.

This car and the behavior of Lexus corporate are both a MAJOR SHOCK to me but will figure out what to do.

2thfixr

Bob, let me start off by saying that I don't envy your position. It's a very difficult situation when you pay extra for a purchase with the intention of getting something nicer but end up with something that causes more grief than a lesser product.

Is it possible that your emails/letter did not make it to the proper people? Esp if you went through Lexus Australia? Did you try contacting your zone rep? Did you try contacting Lexus in So Cal? You seem like a resourceful person and I don't know if you have already tried the above but in my experience, if you try to go straight to the top, you aren't necessarily guaranteed results. Sometimes you won't even get a response because your complaint has to go down so many levels that it gets passed off and eventually lost in the shuffle.

IMHO, you should get a letter drafted by an attorney. Short sweet and to the point is much more effective than a detailed transcription of what has transpired thus far with commentary added for coloration. When you go high up on the corporate ladder, you don't want to get into the particulars of the situation off the bat. You want to keep your letter short and sweet with a simple listing of problem areas rather than specific problems. This way, they don't know exactly what the problem is, they only know that there is a concern from your point of view. In other words, make things easy for them and make them want to help you. If the person "higher up" senses that you are being a little too particular, bordering on difficult they won't even bother reading what you have to say. It will just get passed down and it won't be handled directly. Your complaints become a, "handle this" issue rather than a, "see what you can do to make this person happy" issue. I can honestly say that there were so many details and so much ranting going on that I did not even bother reading the entire post. You get much better results when the tone of your letter is, "Can somebody please assist me with this?" vs "I'm pissed and I want results now!"

It appears that you are at a crossroads and now have to make a choice of whether it's worth it for you to fight or flee. You stated that your issues are annoyances rather than major issues. This is an important point that you should consider when making your decision. A nuisance issue means nothing to a manufacturer. They know that it's not possible to make 100% of their customers happy 100% of the time despite their best efforts. My guess is that Lexus is not helping you because they don't have a solution to your problems. Also, there has to be a certain threshold under which manufacturers deny customer complaints. You have to remember the size of these companies and their unwillingness to help you stems from their huge customer base. If there are 250,000 people globally (don't know the actual number) purchasing cars from Toyota per year, why would they even waste their time with one person or even 500 people. Even if those people have purchased 20 Toyotas in their lifetime, why bother? Because they will feel the hit when those 500 people don't come back for cars? I think not!

I don't think this qualifies as a Lemon Law claim because there have to be safety or drivability issues. Nuisance issues basically fall under the category of "within normal limits for manufacturing tolerances" which of course they set. It's also the exact response that you probably received from your service personnel.

Personally, I would put an end to all of the nonsense and get rid of the car. In fact, one of the reasons why I purchased the GS350 last week is because of my "work/commute" car, a 2005 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited. It had an A/C system that cycled between ice cold and cold every 10-15 seconds. It's not that it wasn't cold. On the contrary, it was so cold that you couldn't keep your hand in front of the vents because it would become painfully cold! It was simply a nuisance issue because it was like getting a hot flash every 10-15 seconds. It was at the dealership for a month and they tried their very best to resolve the issue but they could not and the ultimate response was that there was no problem. It's funny because the service writer and the service manager both told me with a look on their face like they knew that it was a definite issue but couldn't come up with a solution. They even told me that they wished they could do more because it would drive them crazy too. To make a long story short, the car was picked up on Fri and traded in on Sat.

If you choose to fight, you have a long road ahead of you! The good thing is that you don't have to worry about the trade issue. If they ask, tell them you don't like the seating position or the ride. Something that is totally subjective. They won't think twice. Even then, you don't owe anybody an explanation, you simply want something different and don't like the car anymore. Also, dealerships don't extensively drive and evaluate fairly new trades. All they want to see is the general condition, the list of options, and the mileage. In fact, I have traded in 6 cars in the past 2 years and the dealership never bothered to drive any of the cars.

Once again, IMHO, don't let anything stop you from eliminating your source of grief. Life is too short to live with something that makes you unhappy. Money is important but time and the enjoyment of your day to day existence should take precedent.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide!

ES350Bob

[QUOTE=2thfixr;2169648]Bob, let me start off by saying that I don't envy your position. It's a very difficult situation when you pay extra for a purchase with the intention of getting something nicer but end up with something that causes more grief than a lesser product.

Is it possible that your emails/letter did not make it to the proper people? Esp if you went through Lexus Australia? Did you try contacting your zone rep? Did you try contacting Lexus in So Cal? You seem like a resourceful person and I don't know if you have already tried the above but in my experience, if you try to go straight to the top, you aren't necessarily guaranteed results. Sometimes you won't even get a response because your complaint has to go down so many levels that it gets passed off and eventually lost in the shuffle.

Thanks for the time you spent considering my situation and responding.

I do view the engine and transmission as major, all the balance is what I have placed into nuisance category or view as annoying.

It was Ca I was referring to in my e-mail to officials. It was bad enough I was concerned over my car then having to be subjected to deplorable follow through and deceit about what would happen and when for a month plus.

As to whether or not my e-mail got where it was supposed to, my money is on the Australians doing as requested. My mother is Austral-American, extensive family there and they all believed it would be handled appropriately and not at all as I had experienced here. Of course they could be wrong.

In contrast, not even getting a phone call when told here or no call to alert me things would not happen and more, much more than I care to list here, I lost all trust in Lexus corporate USA and given what happened on the 27th, it seems my losing trust and feeling like the approach I used was merited and was prescient.

As for trading or whatever I do I know ultimately this will pass.

I am actually getting comfortable with my friend's lecture on my ego: He said my ego will not yet allow me to admit that a car, car manufacturer, I spent the last decade plus bragging on has stuck me with a defect and deplorable behavior and plain don't give a nickel about doing it to me.

That is hard to accept because I have spent the last decade plus bragging on them, he may be on to something, as I am starting to come around to that as a reality here no matter what I feel as to how it should have been handled...

...Or no matter how I handled similar issues when I owned my own manufacturing company where a mistake on my company part would have been back charged to me, my company, the price of a Lexus or more depending. I didn't stick my customers, no matter how small a project(s) they brought in and I sure didn't subject my own product outgoing to set me up for a loss in the tens of thousands of dollars. So on some level I feel the volume of these things reaching us with issues is unacceptable and what people and I are having to deal with as a result is as well.

I guess it is that this just takes some getting used to this as the reality for me.

Sincerely, thank you though for the consideration.

GSsnarl

2thfixr, excellent post.

ES350bob, I can only imagine how horrible you must feel. You got a new car, you should be nothing but extremely happy with it.
But I'll tell you, reading your posts (I just glimpsed at all of your 118 posts) 99% of them are complaints about your car and dealership. I don’t think I read anything positive you wrote about your ES, so trust me; sell it and get something else already! Not from Lexus because you obviously seem to have a major problem with them too. Why are YOU still putting up with this? I've never heard of a single car that had this many problems, let alone a Lexus. Believe me I know alot of people that have had several Lexuses over the years amongst their various cars; they always say one of the most incredible things about Lexuses is that they are the most reliable and have least problems compared to other manufacturers (even the latest Lexus models).
It’s either you a very picky; looking for any kind of glitch OR you’re car really does have that many problems (Lemon; it happens, but that doesn’t make the ES a bad car). What ever it is, you have reached a point where nothing will satisfy you, which is understanble yet unfortunate of course, because the ES350 is a great car, it look really good, has a lot of nice features etc.
I’ve been in Corollas and Yaris and never felt the car tilting while the wipers were moving. So clearly your car must have issues.
Anyway as for the excuse for the trade in; are you seriously worried about what you would have to say??? ??
Tell them you simply want to get another color
or that you wanted to get a GS450h
or that it doesn’t really fit your budget and you want to get something cheaper
or your wife just told you she’s pregnant so you will now have 4 kids and therefore need a minivan
or that you decided to go green and go to work on a bicycle
or that you were getting to much attention driving this car
or that the car was too fast
or that it was too reliable, to high quality
or that it… you get the point. There are BILLIONS of excuses you can come up with.


Also, you said in your letter

“I do not believe this deplorable lack of follow through is unique to me, I strongly believe it is happening to many Lexus owners who otherwise felt they could rely on, depend on, and trust Lexus corporate when they made first contact…
… And sadly you will likely discover that many like myself are planning on moving to other manufacturers as a result.”

How do you know all this imformation??? I’m sorry but that was an exageration that I chuckled at. You are taking your problems and capitalizing on them.

"Wipers scrape paint off back edge of hood: Unless you know for certain to never lift wipers unless you first click them into snow or winter mode, you will scrape the paint off the back edge of hood of car. Owners may be made aware of this (I was not made aware of this but didn't scrape any paint) but not those people at Mall parking lots, elsewhere, that love to lift them to shove their printed advertisement flyers under, also car wash people may not know to not do this. It seems several owners have done this and others have had this happen at Mall parking."

You want to know what else happens at mall parkings? Door dings, scratches, being keyed, stolen wheel caps etc. Is that Lexus’ fault?

"My Observation: This design should be redone so this never happens. Minimally each and every customer must have it made very clear to them they will scrape off the paint of the back edge of hood if not very cautious."

See what I mean; you have reached a point where you will pick on anything (understandably). I don’t blame Lexus designers for putting the wipers tucked in under the hood. If the scratch that happened to you happened to me I would blame my self for it. Common, while lifting the wipers, pay attention to the surrounding, will it hit something or not? If the wiper was put outwards it would affect aerodynamics of the car, give it more wind noise therefore more complaints from you.


Think about it… again im sorry about your experience. I really hate it when this happens but you are unlucky and maybe you don’t have “a way” of dealing with you dealership. Wish you all the luck!

GSsnarl

By the way ES350BOB, I don't want my post to sound like I'm picking on you. I'm just telling you what's what.