ES Vs GS ?
06-19-06, 08:46 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Pheonix
Phillip, if lexus were really its own entity, it wouldn't be using the Toyota Part's bin left & right.
06-19-06, 08:55 AM
#32
Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
Not necessarily. Although Lexus is still part of the Toyota Motor Company, it is now it's own entity. Just like how Jaguar and Aston Martin are part of the Ford Motor Company, they work as a semi-independent entity.
Lexus will further set itself apart from Toyota by being a bit more innovative with the cars' technology and performance/handling. Engines may be the same, and the ES will always share the same chassis as the Camry. But Lexus will set themselves apart by providing their cars and clientele with technology and products that you won't find in "everyday" cars. When technology and products becomes more "mainstream," it will trickle down to Toyota. Other than technology, you can also tell that there is a huge difference in styling philosophy between both.
Lexus equals expensive Toyotas? Not anymore...
Lexus will further set itself apart from Toyota by being a bit more innovative with the cars' technology and performance/handling. Engines may be the same, and the ES will always share the same chassis as the Camry. But Lexus will set themselves apart by providing their cars and clientele with technology and products that you won't find in "everyday" cars. When technology and products becomes more "mainstream," it will trickle down to Toyota. Other than technology, you can also tell that there is a huge difference in styling philosophy between both.
Lexus equals expensive Toyotas? Not anymore...
Would it be logical and sound that:
1) Toyota designed whatever car that's originally a Toyota, then bring it to the US as Lexus.
OR
2) Lexus in the US designed whatever Lexus models then Toyota decides to bring it to Japan as a Toyota?
In addition, the technology and products that you won't find in everyday cars IN THE USA are found in most cars all over Asia, not just Japan... Taxis in Taiwan have GPS/TV/DVD player left and right... As for styling philosophy... If we're talking about the models that are identical in Japan as a Toyota and in USA as Lexus... Yeah, big different styling philosophy. i.e. Altezza/IS, Soarer/SC, RX/Harrier, etc...
Lexus is NOT expensive Toyotas, they ARE Toyotas. I will say that the options offered as a Toyota and Lexus for the same models are quite different but nonetheless still the same car, just different name and instead of left, they are right-hand-drives.
Lastly, Diamler Chrysler and MB were independent companies before... They merged... And just to keep the records straight, both MB's I had were brand new but turned out to be both lemons. My father's 98 E-Class is still solid as a rock with no problems whatsoever. After the two companies merged, the quality of MB has significantly gone downhill. Toyota created the brand Lexus solely for the North America market in the first place because Toyota and other Japanese car manufacturers meant "economical" and not "luxurious."
P.S. Do you think the GMC Yukon and Chevy Tahoe/Suburban are the same cars? What about Isuzu Trooper and Acura SLX?
Last edited by Yang1815; 06-19-06 at 09:17 AM.
06-19-06, 09:44 AM
#33
Quite true. Our 02 Camry has 2 things I recognised from a 95 LS400 - the chrome interior door handle and the remote keyless entry fob. I know they're the same because I have the brochure for the 1995 LS400 and it shows the fob (near the end) and of course the interior.
How's that for extended life? The 2001 LS430 gets a remake and the old parts get passed down to the Camry lol.
How's that for extended life? The 2001 LS430 gets a remake and the old parts get passed down to the Camry lol.
06-19-06, 10:31 AM
#34
Originally Posted by Yang1815
If we're talking about the models that are identical in Japan as a Toyota and in USA as Lexus... Yeah, big different styling philosophy. i.e. Altezza/IS, Soarer/SC, RX/Harrier, etc...
There's a huge difference between the two...
06-19-06, 10:44 AM
#35
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
You're talking about the Past. I'm talking about the Present and Future of Lexus.
There's a huge difference between the two...
There's a huge difference between the two...
06-19-06, 11:34 AM
#36
Im sorry, but the GS, IS & LS still share the assembly line with the rav4 & land cruiser.
Lexus = Toyota, just with better quality materials - not better, or different parts.
Lexus = Toyota, just with better quality materials - not better, or different parts.
06-19-06, 04:50 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Pheonix
Im sorry, but the GS, IS & LS still share the assembly line with the rav4 & land cruiser.
Lexus = Toyota, just with better quality materials - not better, or different parts.
Lexus = Toyota, just with better quality materials - not better, or different parts.
06-20-06, 04:24 AM
#39
Originally Posted by INHOCJP
Exactly, that's why the Lexus brand exists in Japan now. No more Celsior/LS, Harrier/RX, Aristo/GS, etc. Lexus is trying to distinguish itelf as an independent brand from Toyota.
The Lexus isn't doing that well in Japan because they wow'd the American market simply due to their pampering and service (aka, the dealership experience), which is standard in Japan. The consumers aren't stupid, they still know that the GS is an Aristo. Lastly, Honda hasn't brought the Acura brand to Japan, nor has Nissan brought Infiniti. This is probably due to financial reasons but meh... Which I personally don't understand why anyway... Assuming Toyota Motor Corporation spent 2 billion dollars to bring Lexus in Japan, they could've invested that money in developing countries such as China. The Japanese market is pretty saturated, and the business Lexus takes away will be mostly from Toyota and not the German competitors.
Last edited by Yang1815; 06-20-06 at 04:29 AM.
06-20-06, 08:21 AM
#40
Originally Posted by Yang1815
Just ask yourself, would you spend whatever how much you spent on your Lexus on a domestic car such as Ford or GM?
The consumers aren't stupid, they still know that the GS is an Aristo.
The consumers aren't stupid, they still know that the GS is an Aristo.
Also, I agree that consumers are not stupid. However, they need to be educated on the changes in the automotive world. If consumers "know that the (new) GS is an Aristo," they are misinformed. That was the past, and the future of Lexus will be different.
I agree with people saying that a Lexus is a Toyota. I just hope that all of you agree that such a statement is very past tense. I cannot agree that as Lexus develops in the future, that it will continue to be a Toyota...
06-21-06, 12:00 AM
#41
[QUOTE=Yang1815] Just ask yourself, would you spend whatever how much you spent on your Lexus on a domestic car such as Ford or GM?
[\QUOTE]
Isn't that the same in Europe? Why buy a Ford Mondeo when you can get a 318i or 316i (do they still have that?) for the same amount of money.
I'll take the Mondeo, thank you.
Besides, how do you know Toyota won't sell more with Lexus? Toyota's a home brand and is still well respected. I guess those that own the new Lexus will have bragging rights with the name, that's all.
That and the misinformed will understand GS not Aristo etc.
[\QUOTE]
Isn't that the same in Europe? Why buy a Ford Mondeo when you can get a 318i or 316i (do they still have that?) for the same amount of money.
I'll take the Mondeo, thank you.
Besides, how do you know Toyota won't sell more with Lexus? Toyota's a home brand and is still well respected. I guess those that own the new Lexus will have bragging rights with the name, that's all.
That and the misinformed will understand GS not Aristo etc.
06-28-06, 11:16 AM
#43
Lexus Champion
Back when I had my GS400, which was a 99 model, I used to get 02+ ES300 and ES330 loaners all the time and driving them back to back with my GS the GS felt like a much more substantial car. Just driving it felt like it was heavier, more planted on the road, more solid and unitized ("stronger") over bumps - you had to throw a lot more crazy driving and bad roads at it before it started feeling out of control, unlike the ES that pretty much was only in its element driving on smooth roads with no sudden movements.
And that's comparing my 99 GS to the 02-06 ES. Not sure how the 07+ ES stacks with the 06+ GS. I have driven an 06+ GS300 but not the new ES and definitely no extended back to back driving like I was able to do with my old car and the loaner cars.
Just my .02
I can assure you there is very little in the way of parts sharing between the IS/GS/LS/SC and any Toyota vehicle sold in the US.
The ES or RX on the other hand, well, sure... they're lux'd versions of their Toyota counterpart. But even then they often do have better (different) parts - but it's more of the exception than it is the rule like on the prior mentioned models.
And that's comparing my 99 GS to the 02-06 ES. Not sure how the 07+ ES stacks with the 06+ GS. I have driven an 06+ GS300 but not the new ES and definitely no extended back to back driving like I was able to do with my old car and the loaner cars.
Just my .02
Originally Posted by Pheonix
Im sorry, but the GS, IS & LS still share the assembly line with the rav4 & land cruiser.
Lexus = Toyota, just with better quality materials - not better, or different parts.
Lexus = Toyota, just with better quality materials - not better, or different parts.
The ES or RX on the other hand, well, sure... they're lux'd versions of their Toyota counterpart. But even then they often do have better (different) parts - but it's more of the exception than it is the rule like on the prior mentioned models.
06-28-06, 11:31 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Threxx
Back when I had my GS400, which was a 99 model, I used to get 02+ ES300 and ES330 loaners all the time and driving them back to back with my GS the GS felt like a much more substantial car. Just driving it felt like it was heavier, more planted on the road, more solid and unitized ("stronger") over bumps - you had to throw a lot more crazy driving and bad roads at it before it started feeling out of control, unlike the ES that pretty much was only in its element driving on smooth roads with no sudden movements.
And that's comparing my 99 GS to the 02-06 ES. Not sure how the 07+ ES stacks with the 06+ GS. I have driven an 06+ GS300 but not the new ES and definitely no extended back to back driving like I was able to do with my old car and the loaner cars.
Just my .02
I can assure you there is very little in the way of parts sharing between the IS/GS/LS/SC and any Toyota vehicle sold in the US.
The ES or RX on the other hand, well, sure... they're lux'd versions of their Toyota counterpart. But even then they often do have better (different) parts - but it's more of the exception than it is the rule like on the prior mentioned models.
And that's comparing my 99 GS to the 02-06 ES. Not sure how the 07+ ES stacks with the 06+ GS. I have driven an 06+ GS300 but not the new ES and definitely no extended back to back driving like I was able to do with my old car and the loaner cars.
Just my .02
I can assure you there is very little in the way of parts sharing between the IS/GS/LS/SC and any Toyota vehicle sold in the US.
The ES or RX on the other hand, well, sure... they're lux'd versions of their Toyota counterpart. But even then they often do have better (different) parts - but it's more of the exception than it is the rule like on the prior mentioned models.
I owned a first year GS300 and agree totally that as compared to the ES it is (was) "heavier, more planted on the road, more solid and unitized ("stronger") over bumps." That didn't stop me from being bored by mine. Not so with the '07 ES. Not so at all!!!
06-28-06, 11:45 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by Hitsme
In swapping .02s here, although I haven't torn into their parts manuals, the SC and the Solara are closely related as is the GS and the Avalon.
I owned a first year GS300 and agree totally that as compared to the ES it is (was) "heavier, more planted on the road, more solid and unitized ("stronger") over bumps." That didn't stop me from being bored by mine. Not so with the '07 ES. Not so at all!!!
I owned a first year GS300 and agree totally that as compared to the ES it is (was) "heavier, more planted on the road, more solid and unitized ("stronger") over bumps." That didn't stop me from being bored by mine. Not so with the '07 ES. Not so at all!!!
Compared to the SC and GS they share almost nothing parts-wise (I'm talking about actual mechanicals here - chassis, suspension, motor, transmission, unibody, etc... not the ocasional piece of switch gear). The SC's platform, drivetrain, etc is 100% unique and far improved in every measure when compared to the Solara. They weren't even born from the same basic sheet of engineering paper, really - both were fresh completely seperate ground up designs - one to the other. Same with the GS, which only shares its design somewhat with the IS and quite a with of course with the non US sold Aristo.
I don't doubt the 06 GS300 was 'boring' compared to the ES if your main measure is power. The ES is considerably lighter and considerably more powerful. The GS350 will turn those tables, though.
