Any reviews comparing the ES350 to Acura TL
05-22-06, 02:35 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Here is a list of not availables on the Acura TL....
Dual variable valve timing Double overhead cam engine with 272 Horsepower, 254 bl-ft torque
6-speed automatic transmission
21/30 city/hwy est.fuel economy
36.7 ft turning circle
18.5 Gallon fuel tank
0.28 Cd aerodynamics
10 way drivers seat with standard power lumbar
10 way front passenger's seat with std power lumbar
optional driver's seat power extender
Heated and ventilated front seats
His and Her memory for seat, outside mirrors and steering wheel positions
Rear back up camera
Genuine Walnut trim on doors, center console, steering wheel and shift ****
optional panorama glass froof
Mark Levinson surround sound sytem with DVD movie playback
VGA touchscreen
all four auto up/down windows
Electrochromic auto dimming outside mirrors with puddle lamps
opt. power rear sunshade
auto rain sensing wiper system
driver and passenger front knee airbags
rear side mounted airbags
twin chamber front pass. airbag
rear outboard seatbelt pre-tensioners and force limiters
Dual swivel adaptive front lighting system
Daytime running lights
Pre Collision system with radar cruise control
Sonar Parking assist
Water repellent front door glass
First aid and tool kit
See what I mean?
Rock
6-speed automatic transmission
21/30 city/hwy est.fuel economy
36.7 ft turning circle
18.5 Gallon fuel tank
0.28 Cd aerodynamics
10 way drivers seat with standard power lumbar
10 way front passenger's seat with std power lumbar
optional driver's seat power extender
Heated and ventilated front seats
His and Her memory for seat, outside mirrors and steering wheel positions
Rear back up camera
Genuine Walnut trim on doors, center console, steering wheel and shift ****
optional panorama glass froof
Mark Levinson surround sound sytem with DVD movie playback
VGA touchscreen
all four auto up/down windows
Electrochromic auto dimming outside mirrors with puddle lamps
opt. power rear sunshade
auto rain sensing wiper system
driver and passenger front knee airbags
rear side mounted airbags
twin chamber front pass. airbag
rear outboard seatbelt pre-tensioners and force limiters
Dual swivel adaptive front lighting system
Daytime running lights
Pre Collision system with radar cruise control
Sonar Parking assist
Water repellent front door glass
First aid and tool kit
See what I mean?
Rock
05-22-06, 05:39 PM
#32
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Don't know what the argument is about. They do compete, and many people cross shop them. But they emphasize different things.
The TL blows away the ES in sport, and the ES blows away the TL in luxury. What is better depends on your priorities.
The ES offers more "stuff" as options, but you gotta pay more for them.
The TL blows away the ES in sport, and the ES blows away the TL in luxury. What is better depends on your priorities.
The ES offers more "stuff" as options, but you gotta pay more for them.
05-22-06, 10:19 PM
#33
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Traded-in 2004 Acura TL
I'm a recently former owner of 2004 Acura TL. I traded-in for ES350 but was actually going to buy IS350 when I saw the new ES350 last Saturday (May 20). Decided to buy it instead of IS350 after test driving one... ES350 more spacious and I think quieter inside the cabin.
My patience had ran out with the quality problems with Acura:
1. Rattles - dealer can't fix rattles on center console and in the moonroof; they were able to repair rattle at driver's door
2. Door lock at driver side not opening (I think it's jamming) - dealer replaced actuator it but started appearing again
3. Poor build quality - rear bumper gap to the body getting bigger; looked at numerous TL loaners (which I had to do because of so many problems with my TL) and did not have the same problems
I had it for 1 year and 8 months and I really liked the standard options that came with its price and the handling except for the evident torque steer. This is what I missed so far. Other than that, ES350 is way better than TL.
My patience had ran out with the quality problems with Acura:
1. Rattles - dealer can't fix rattles on center console and in the moonroof; they were able to repair rattle at driver's door
2. Door lock at driver side not opening (I think it's jamming) - dealer replaced actuator it but started appearing again
3. Poor build quality - rear bumper gap to the body getting bigger; looked at numerous TL loaners (which I had to do because of so many problems with my TL) and did not have the same problems
I had it for 1 year and 8 months and I really liked the standard options that came with its price and the handling except for the evident torque steer. This is what I missed so far. Other than that, ES350 is way better than TL.
05-23-06, 02:46 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by cyke
I'm a recently former owner of 2004 Acura TL. I traded-in for ES350 but was actually going to buy IS350 when I saw the new ES350 last Saturday (May 20). Decided to buy it instead of IS350 after test driving one... ES350 more spacious and I think quieter inside the cabin.
My patience had ran out with the quality problems with Acura:
1. Rattles - dealer can't fix rattles on center console and in the moonroof; they were able to repair rattle at driver's door
2. Door lock at driver side not opening (I think it's jamming) - dealer replaced actuator it but started appearing again
3. Poor build quality - rear bumper gap to the body getting bigger; looked at numerous TL loaners (which I had to do because of so many problems with my TL) and did not have the same problems
I had it for 1 year and 8 months and I really liked the standard options that came with its price and the handling except for the evident torque steer. This is what I missed so far. Other than that, ES350 is way better than TL.
My patience had ran out with the quality problems with Acura:
1. Rattles - dealer can't fix rattles on center console and in the moonroof; they were able to repair rattle at driver's door
2. Door lock at driver side not opening (I think it's jamming) - dealer replaced actuator it but started appearing again
3. Poor build quality - rear bumper gap to the body getting bigger; looked at numerous TL loaners (which I had to do because of so many problems with my TL) and did not have the same problems
I had it for 1 year and 8 months and I really liked the standard options that came with its price and the handling except for the evident torque steer. This is what I missed so far. Other than that, ES350 is way better than TL.
05-24-06, 02:21 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by bunka
I agree that the new ES350 is a nice configuration but it's not really THAT much better than the TL. The cabin is nicer and it's getting closer to the Mercedes so that is a step up but the TL's stereo is every bit as good as the ES. The Xenon headlights have been standard on the TL for over 3 years. The price is also another $5K higher so it SHOULD have these advantages. IMHO the C-series from Merc isn't really the direct competitor to the TL or the ES. Rather, the E-series is more in alignment. The TL is $35K, the ES is $40K, the E-class is $48K. The ES fits in the gap between the TL and the E-class and IMHO they did a good job of price positioning it.
As for the New NAVI - I think you are missing my CORE point. The FUNCTIONALITY of the Lexus NAVI is a PIG! By adding better graphics and bigger processor, you are simply putting that pig in a nice dress, makeup and a pretty hairdo. But (news flash), it's STILL got poor functionality and therefore it's still a pig in a pretty dress IMHO
As for the New NAVI - I think you are missing my CORE point. The FUNCTIONALITY of the Lexus NAVI is a PIG! By adding better graphics and bigger processor, you are simply putting that pig in a nice dress, makeup and a pretty hairdo. But (news flash), it's STILL got poor functionality and therefore it's still a pig in a pretty dress IMHO
05-24-06, 02:28 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Rockville
Dual variable valve timing Double overhead cam engine with 272 Horsepower, 254 bl-ft torque-2007 will offer almost 300HP for type S
6-speed automatic transmission-Who really wants this? I cant tell the diff from a 4 or 5 speed auto. Does Lexus even offer 6sp MT? NOPE
21/30 city/hwy est.fuel economy
36.7 ft turning circle
18.5 Gallon fuel tank
0.28 Cd aerodynamics
10 way drivers seat with standard power lumbar-As long as the seats move back and forth, up and down im happy
10 way front passenger's seat with std power lumbar
optional driver's seat power extender
Heated and ventilated front seats-Acura has heated seats
His and Her memory for seat, outside mirrors and steering wheel positions-Why does the passenger need memory seats?
Rear back up camera-Yes Acura should have this option
Genuine Walnut trim on doors, center console, steering wheel and shift ****-Wood is for the oldies
optional panorama glass froof
Mark Levinson surround sound sytem with DVD movie playback-Mark Levinson only offered by Lexus...this is not a valid option
VGA touchscreen-Acura has touchscreen
all four auto up/down windows
Electrochromic auto dimming outside mirrors with puddle lamps
opt. power rear sunshade
auto rain sensing wiper system
driver and passenger front knee airbags
rear side mounted airbags
twin chamber front pass. airbag
rear outboard seatbelt pre-tensioners and force limiters
Dual swivel adaptive front lighting system
Daytime running lights-Who wants this? just wastes energy
Pre Collision system with radar cruise control
Sonar Parking assist
Water repellent front door glass
First aid and tool kit-Tell your wife to bring some bandaids
See what I mean?-----did you also forget to add over 10k in options?
Rock
6-speed automatic transmission-Who really wants this? I cant tell the diff from a 4 or 5 speed auto. Does Lexus even offer 6sp MT? NOPE
21/30 city/hwy est.fuel economy
36.7 ft turning circle
18.5 Gallon fuel tank
0.28 Cd aerodynamics
10 way drivers seat with standard power lumbar-As long as the seats move back and forth, up and down im happy
10 way front passenger's seat with std power lumbar
optional driver's seat power extender
Heated and ventilated front seats-Acura has heated seats
His and Her memory for seat, outside mirrors and steering wheel positions-Why does the passenger need memory seats?
Rear back up camera-Yes Acura should have this option
Genuine Walnut trim on doors, center console, steering wheel and shift ****-Wood is for the oldies
optional panorama glass froof
Mark Levinson surround sound sytem with DVD movie playback-Mark Levinson only offered by Lexus...this is not a valid option
VGA touchscreen-Acura has touchscreen
all four auto up/down windows
Electrochromic auto dimming outside mirrors with puddle lamps
opt. power rear sunshade
auto rain sensing wiper system
driver and passenger front knee airbags
rear side mounted airbags
twin chamber front pass. airbag
rear outboard seatbelt pre-tensioners and force limiters
Dual swivel adaptive front lighting system
Daytime running lights-Who wants this? just wastes energy
Pre Collision system with radar cruise control
Sonar Parking assist
Water repellent front door glass
First aid and tool kit-Tell your wife to bring some bandaids
See what I mean?-----did you also forget to add over 10k in options?
Rock
05-25-06, 07:04 AM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
details can get lost in translation....
When Acura had an advantage in performance we acknowledged that. Now Lexus does so that's fair, isn't it? A 272 HP double overhead cam with dual (intake and exhaust) variable valve timing that operates throughout the RPM spectrum gives the Lexus engine more performance vs. the SOHC VTEC. I'm sure that Acura will improve their engines in the future but that is another day...
Acura was the first to offer a 5 speed automatic FWD and that was an advantage. Now Lexus has created a smaller and weight saving 6 speed so they have an advantage with the extra gear to help the acceleration and overdrive ratios. The new LS460 will have an 8 speed automatic. The new ES350 transmission has a sequential shift slot for the first time. Manual shifts do not sell well in the Luxury market and used to compensate for small engine sizes so the driver could eke more performance out of them. Even BMW barely moves any manuals off the lot anymore.
You might be happy with a simplified seat design but the Luxury market wants it on both front seats and Acura TL gives you a 4 way on the passenger's side. I guess you need a spouse to appreciate this....The His and Her key fob is a reference to the memory for the drivers seat, steering wheel position and outside mirrors. When you touch the door handle the memory moves the above positions to the His or Her stored positions automatically. That's what we call luxury....The little perforations in the leather will allow a fan to ventilate the seats in the summertime to cool you off and the heating coils will warm you in the winter.
What's plastic for? Petroleum companies? Most of the buyers of the ES350 are above 30 years old if that's what you mean. Acura just uses fake wood or carbon fiber to dress up their interior. Would you buy anything else that is fake wood? Like a fake wood piano or fake wood key chain?
The Mark Levinson option was mentioned because at 300 watts with 14 speakers it will blow the doors off the Acura TL's system and also give you a home theater performance if you slip a DVD into the slot. Movies are perfect for surround sound playback and Acura just needs to take it to the next level....
The Acura screen is larger at 8 inches but the resolution and graphics are poor compared to the new Gen 5 Lexus Nav VGA. The Acura Nav might be the main bright spot of the TL's interior though.
The daytime running lights on the ES350 can be turned off if you feel they are a waste of energy. In some countries they are required because they reduce the chance of a head on collision. Lexus gives you a choice....Now if you had a head on collision you might want to reconsider the first aid kit that comes standard on all Lexus. If you had kids you would immediately see the value of that.
$10,000 is about the right figure for the decontent of the TL in comparison to the ES350. I guess the old credo "you get what you pay for" still applies.
If any of the options mentioned mystify you I would be glad to explain them in greater detail. Just ask....Like I've said before its Holiday Inn vs. Ritz-Carlton in this comparison.
Rock 168
Acura was the first to offer a 5 speed automatic FWD and that was an advantage. Now Lexus has created a smaller and weight saving 6 speed so they have an advantage with the extra gear to help the acceleration and overdrive ratios. The new LS460 will have an 8 speed automatic. The new ES350 transmission has a sequential shift slot for the first time. Manual shifts do not sell well in the Luxury market and used to compensate for small engine sizes so the driver could eke more performance out of them. Even BMW barely moves any manuals off the lot anymore.
You might be happy with a simplified seat design but the Luxury market wants it on both front seats and Acura TL gives you a 4 way on the passenger's side. I guess you need a spouse to appreciate this....The His and Her key fob is a reference to the memory for the drivers seat, steering wheel position and outside mirrors. When you touch the door handle the memory moves the above positions to the His or Her stored positions automatically. That's what we call luxury....The little perforations in the leather will allow a fan to ventilate the seats in the summertime to cool you off and the heating coils will warm you in the winter.
What's plastic for? Petroleum companies? Most of the buyers of the ES350 are above 30 years old if that's what you mean. Acura just uses fake wood or carbon fiber to dress up their interior. Would you buy anything else that is fake wood? Like a fake wood piano or fake wood key chain?
The Mark Levinson option was mentioned because at 300 watts with 14 speakers it will blow the doors off the Acura TL's system and also give you a home theater performance if you slip a DVD into the slot. Movies are perfect for surround sound playback and Acura just needs to take it to the next level....
The Acura screen is larger at 8 inches but the resolution and graphics are poor compared to the new Gen 5 Lexus Nav VGA. The Acura Nav might be the main bright spot of the TL's interior though.
The daytime running lights on the ES350 can be turned off if you feel they are a waste of energy. In some countries they are required because they reduce the chance of a head on collision. Lexus gives you a choice....Now if you had a head on collision you might want to reconsider the first aid kit that comes standard on all Lexus. If you had kids you would immediately see the value of that.
$10,000 is about the right figure for the decontent of the TL in comparison to the ES350. I guess the old credo "you get what you pay for" still applies.
If any of the options mentioned mystify you I would be glad to explain them in greater detail. Just ask....Like I've said before its Holiday Inn vs. Ritz-Carlton in this comparison.
Rock 168
05-26-06, 05:12 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by cyke
I'm a recently former owner of 2004 Acura TL. I traded-in for ES350 but was actually going to buy IS350 when I saw the new ES350 last Saturday (May 20). Decided to buy it instead of IS350 after test driving one... ES350 more spacious and I think quieter inside the cabin.
My patience had ran out with the quality problems with Acura:
1. Rattles - dealer can't fix rattles on center console and in the moonroof; they were able to repair rattle at driver's door
2. Door lock at driver side not opening (I think it's jamming) - dealer replaced actuator it but started appearing again
3. Poor build quality - rear bumper gap to the body getting bigger; looked at numerous TL loaners (which I had to do because of so many problems with my TL) and did not have the same problems
I had it for 1 year and 8 months and I really liked the standard options that came with its price and the handling except for the evident torque steer. This is what I missed so far. Other than that, ES350 is way better than TL.
My patience had ran out with the quality problems with Acura:
1. Rattles - dealer can't fix rattles on center console and in the moonroof; they were able to repair rattle at driver's door
2. Door lock at driver side not opening (I think it's jamming) - dealer replaced actuator it but started appearing again
3. Poor build quality - rear bumper gap to the body getting bigger; looked at numerous TL loaners (which I had to do because of so many problems with my TL) and did not have the same problems
I had it for 1 year and 8 months and I really liked the standard options that came with its price and the handling except for the evident torque steer. This is what I missed so far. Other than that, ES350 is way better than TL.
How old are you? What other cars did you look at?
Michael
05-26-06, 11:05 PM
#39
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Michael,
I'm 36. As I previously mentioned, I also looked at IS350 and was actually going to buy this car but needed more space at the back since i have a 4 yr old. I saw the new ES350 in the showroom and was sold on it afer the test drive. It is just too cramped at the back in the IS350 although I liked how it handled and especially the acceleration. TL has the most rear space among compact sports sedans. I also looked at BMW 330i and Infiniti G35 & M35. ES350 is not as aggressive looking as the others but there is ample power in this car that people maybe surprised and I like that. ES350 is the quietest car and has the smoothest ride but of course, this car is not for drag racing especially in the twistys. Body roll is evident but it is well controlled to my surprise. I did not notice torque steer at all which is very noticeable in the TL. I'm very happy with this car so far and I hope the repuation of Lexus for reliabiility holds this time coming from a bad experience with Acura.
Cyke
I'm 36. As I previously mentioned, I also looked at IS350 and was actually going to buy this car but needed more space at the back since i have a 4 yr old. I saw the new ES350 in the showroom and was sold on it afer the test drive. It is just too cramped at the back in the IS350 although I liked how it handled and especially the acceleration. TL has the most rear space among compact sports sedans. I also looked at BMW 330i and Infiniti G35 & M35. ES350 is not as aggressive looking as the others but there is ample power in this car that people maybe surprised and I like that. ES350 is the quietest car and has the smoothest ride but of course, this car is not for drag racing especially in the twistys. Body roll is evident but it is well controlled to my surprise. I did not notice torque steer at all which is very noticeable in the TL. I'm very happy with this car so far and I hope the repuation of Lexus for reliabiility holds this time coming from a bad experience with Acura.
Cyke
Last edited by cyke; 05-27-06 at 09:04 AM.
05-27-06, 08:16 AM
#40
Cyke,
I second EVERYTHING you just submitted and could have written it myself - well, except for the four-year old reference.
I sat in an IS at the Phila. Auto Show and was shocked at the lack of space in the rear. I don't quite understand it because the car doesn't look all that small from the outside.
I second EVERYTHING you just submitted and could have written it myself - well, except for the four-year old reference.
I sat in an IS at the Phila. Auto Show and was shocked at the lack of space in the rear. I don't quite understand it because the car doesn't look all that small from the outside.
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