2002+ ES300/ES330 suspension options w/new springs (stock ride height)
09-28-14, 03:03 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
2002+ ES300/ES330 suspension options w/new springs (stock ride height)
I recently re-did the suspension with non-OE components and was quite pleased with the quality, ride, and cost. $430 total
Our 223,000 mile 2002 ES300 was begging for new struts. Amazingly, the ride had aged gracefully – mostly (~75%) true highway/interstate miles so a much longer life than average I believe. Still, the shocks were shot and had been for some time. Some bounce on hard bumps, but nothing unbearable. Additionally, the wheels would be into the arches in the rear when fully loaded (200+ lbs in trunk, kids in back). Thus I wanted new rear springs also.
When doing the timing belt last month, I examined all the suspension components as closely as I could. Everything was good/serviceable looking that I could visualize. So I skipped mounts, insulators, etc. and purchased only:
2x KYB Rear struts: KYB 334340 right, 334341 left
2x KYB Front struts: KYB 334338 right, 334339 left
4x KYB bellows: 2x SB101 rear and 2x SB102 front
2x Moog coil springs (rear): Moog CC273 for Camry/Avalon
4x sway bar bushings (they are different front and rear so actually 2x2).
Total cost was $430. I got the front struts on a unique sale, so budget $460/$470 from RockAuto, Amazon, etc. unless you find a great deal on the struts. I found the mounts, insulators, front bearings to be fine when all out of the car so nothing else needed.
Results are great. The car handles wonderfully, evenly, with little to no unnecessary body roll. The loaded handling is as equal to general new luxury/performance car standards, and with the likelihood it will stay so vastly longer than the crappy soft springs OE in the rear. It is a little stiffer than OE, but again it will last longer and not degrade as fast. Win-win I think.
The ride height is unchanged. I measured 27” in the rear with the car unladen, from ground to center of the rear wheel arch. It was unchanged after the new rear struts and rear coils. With 250lbs in the trunk, the rear settles only about ¾ to 1”, but does not ride overly harsh or stiff. The ride is obviously much firmer than it was before. I did not have the car from new so I don’t know what a “new” 2002-2006 ES rides like. The body roll from the worn shock and softened springs is gone and the car feels confident and vastly more satisfying to drive. Steering is sharper with better dampening on the front.
The Moog coils will not appear in any search for ES300/330 coils for these Model Years. I saw they were spec’d for the same generation Camry and Avalon for rear springs, so I decided to go with it. My options – per pair delivered - were Lexus springs at $260, Camry springs at $160, or these for $76. I decided to try them and have zero regrets.
Other notes:
1) Sway bar bushings: did not need them I realized once I had them off. My other vehicles usually benefited from them well before this mileage. Also, the fronts are a REAL bear to swap because of access issues (very bad design – a blind nut on the clamp instead of the frame would have saved an hour). So unless you clearly see them decaying, skip the front. The rears are quite easy, though unlikely to be worn.
2) Transmission shifting: I had a “hard” downshift going on at 2 to L when making a stop. It is gone now after the suspension was done. I can guess it perhaps had to do with balance and f/r distribution with the worn suspension. I had previously switched to synthetic atf and replaced a broken engine torque strut, which helped reduce it. The suspension change now eliminated it.
3) KYB ‘Excel G’ and ‘GR-2’ are the same strut, just cosmetics and the difference is being phased out. Buy whichever you find and do not waste time investigating the differences (there is a statement to this effect somewhere on the KYB website).
4) Torque on the upper nuts: Even if you think you got the upper strut nut torque right on the bench (~40 ft/lbs), check it after installing wheels, dropping car to the ground, and then again after driving a few miles. Don’t zip up the rear interior until you do this. I did not do this, and had to pull the rear seats and rear package tray and re-do it after 100 miles; one side came loose and was hammering like a box of rocks in the trunk. Fortunately I knew what it was based on pre-swap research, so it was low-drama. It was still wasted time and effort and I could have saved it by checking the strut nut torque after weighting it.
5) Moog cc273 will not appear in any available application guide for these cars. You can find it on its own or under a 2002+ Camry or Avalon.
6) Again, if you are tempted to r&r your front sway bar bushings: Don’t.
7) You are going to need a floor jack to not only raise the car all around, but also to support the hubs as well as manipulate the hubs to line up with the struts in the knuckle mounting holes. I suggest this is a perfect time to upgrade to a great unit. We got an Arcan 2.5 ton low-profile unit at Costco for $99 and it was worth every penny on this job alone.
8) A 17mm speed wrench to loosen/tighten the front sway bar link, while holding it with a 5mm (I think) hex, is very nice. Having a set of metric speed wrenches is really nice on many jobs given low access angles at many spots on this car. This is what I am talking about; get them in a set cheaply not individually:
9) If you do not have spring compressors, note that
a) not needed for front
b) can be borrowed from most auto parts stores like O'Reilly or Napa for free when you do the rear.
Our 223,000 mile 2002 ES300 was begging for new struts. Amazingly, the ride had aged gracefully – mostly (~75%) true highway/interstate miles so a much longer life than average I believe. Still, the shocks were shot and had been for some time. Some bounce on hard bumps, but nothing unbearable. Additionally, the wheels would be into the arches in the rear when fully loaded (200+ lbs in trunk, kids in back). Thus I wanted new rear springs also.
When doing the timing belt last month, I examined all the suspension components as closely as I could. Everything was good/serviceable looking that I could visualize. So I skipped mounts, insulators, etc. and purchased only:
2x KYB Rear struts: KYB 334340 right, 334341 left
2x KYB Front struts: KYB 334338 right, 334339 left
4x KYB bellows: 2x SB101 rear and 2x SB102 front
2x Moog coil springs (rear): Moog CC273 for Camry/Avalon
4x sway bar bushings (they are different front and rear so actually 2x2).
Total cost was $430. I got the front struts on a unique sale, so budget $460/$470 from RockAuto, Amazon, etc. unless you find a great deal on the struts. I found the mounts, insulators, front bearings to be fine when all out of the car so nothing else needed.
Results are great. The car handles wonderfully, evenly, with little to no unnecessary body roll. The loaded handling is as equal to general new luxury/performance car standards, and with the likelihood it will stay so vastly longer than the crappy soft springs OE in the rear. It is a little stiffer than OE, but again it will last longer and not degrade as fast. Win-win I think.
The ride height is unchanged. I measured 27” in the rear with the car unladen, from ground to center of the rear wheel arch. It was unchanged after the new rear struts and rear coils. With 250lbs in the trunk, the rear settles only about ¾ to 1”, but does not ride overly harsh or stiff. The ride is obviously much firmer than it was before. I did not have the car from new so I don’t know what a “new” 2002-2006 ES rides like. The body roll from the worn shock and softened springs is gone and the car feels confident and vastly more satisfying to drive. Steering is sharper with better dampening on the front.
The Moog coils will not appear in any search for ES300/330 coils for these Model Years. I saw they were spec’d for the same generation Camry and Avalon for rear springs, so I decided to go with it. My options – per pair delivered - were Lexus springs at $260, Camry springs at $160, or these for $76. I decided to try them and have zero regrets.
Other notes:
1) Sway bar bushings: did not need them I realized once I had them off. My other vehicles usually benefited from them well before this mileage. Also, the fronts are a REAL bear to swap because of access issues (very bad design – a blind nut on the clamp instead of the frame would have saved an hour). So unless you clearly see them decaying, skip the front. The rears are quite easy, though unlikely to be worn.
2) Transmission shifting: I had a “hard” downshift going on at 2 to L when making a stop. It is gone now after the suspension was done. I can guess it perhaps had to do with balance and f/r distribution with the worn suspension. I had previously switched to synthetic atf and replaced a broken engine torque strut, which helped reduce it. The suspension change now eliminated it.
3) KYB ‘Excel G’ and ‘GR-2’ are the same strut, just cosmetics and the difference is being phased out. Buy whichever you find and do not waste time investigating the differences (there is a statement to this effect somewhere on the KYB website).
4) Torque on the upper nuts: Even if you think you got the upper strut nut torque right on the bench (~40 ft/lbs), check it after installing wheels, dropping car to the ground, and then again after driving a few miles. Don’t zip up the rear interior until you do this. I did not do this, and had to pull the rear seats and rear package tray and re-do it after 100 miles; one side came loose and was hammering like a box of rocks in the trunk. Fortunately I knew what it was based on pre-swap research, so it was low-drama. It was still wasted time and effort and I could have saved it by checking the strut nut torque after weighting it.
5) Moog cc273 will not appear in any available application guide for these cars. You can find it on its own or under a 2002+ Camry or Avalon.
6) Again, if you are tempted to r&r your front sway bar bushings: Don’t.
7) You are going to need a floor jack to not only raise the car all around, but also to support the hubs as well as manipulate the hubs to line up with the struts in the knuckle mounting holes. I suggest this is a perfect time to upgrade to a great unit. We got an Arcan 2.5 ton low-profile unit at Costco for $99 and it was worth every penny on this job alone.
8) A 17mm speed wrench to loosen/tighten the front sway bar link, while holding it with a 5mm (I think) hex, is very nice. Having a set of metric speed wrenches is really nice on many jobs given low access angles at many spots on this car. This is what I am talking about; get them in a set cheaply not individually:
9) If you do not have spring compressors, note that
a) not needed for front
b) can be borrowed from most auto parts stores like O'Reilly or Napa for free when you do the rear.
Last edited by Oro; 09-28-14 at 03:15 AM. Reason: schpelling
09-28-14, 08:42 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
Results are great. The car handles wonderfully, evenly, with little to no unnecessary body roll. The loaded handling is as equal to general new luxury/performance car standards, and with the likelihood it will stay so vastly longer than the crappy soft springs OE in the rear. It is a little stiffer than OE, but again it will last longer and not degrade as fast. Win-win I think.
Congrats on doing the work yourself but you're making some dubious assumptions. Also the KYB bellows is a plastic type material the OEM is rubber, I highly doubt the KYB part will hold up long term.
The ride is obviously much firmer than it was before.
09-29-14, 07:01 PM
#3
Lexus Champion
Stiffer ride isn't what a Lexus ES should be. Sure its great for handling but you might miss the super soft ride after a few long drives. Thats why the Camry spring differs from the Lexus spring, as the spring rates are different (I believe the strut is the same).
Mother-in-law
Mother-in-law
09-29-14, 07:42 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
It's a qualified statement based on a very large number of complaints from owners and relatively pre-mature spring failure vs. other makes. Lexus appears to make a compromise in trading off longevity vs. softness for initial ride comfort. This is a general Japanese trend; I've had the same with my Acura.
The assumptions are far from dubious and the results qualified vs. "stock." I don't think any thinking reader is going to be confused or misled.
Which is something most people do not want, they drive a Lexus for comfort.
Some people drive it for comfort. Others image. Others, the nice interior. I qualified the results and the cost/benefit for people to judge what suits them. In general, people should be allowed to make their own informed choices and not straight-jacketed into patronizingly narrow options. It's a good policy to follow in economics, social policy, and cars.
Last edited by Oro; 09-29-14 at 07:48 PM.
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glassmaker (05-11-19)
09-29-14, 08:15 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
10-01-14, 11:51 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Search "new springs" on this forum. Then for kicks, do the same at toyotanation.com.
No one needs to spoon-feed such simple stuff that is well known and documented.
The point of the post is to give owners some broader and more cost-effective options than they might have found otherwise. It's not to argue that it's OE equivalent. this forum is to share knowledge, not enforce a big-brother attitude of "OE Lexus or die."
No one needs to spoon-feed such simple stuff that is well known and documented.
The point of the post is to give owners some broader and more cost-effective options than they might have found otherwise. It's not to argue that it's OE equivalent. this forum is to share knowledge, not enforce a big-brother attitude of "OE Lexus or die."
Last edited by Oro; 10-01-14 at 11:58 PM.
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glassmaker (05-11-19)
10-02-14, 08:13 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
That's what you consider data, searching forums? Good grief.
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10-02-14, 11:32 PM
#8
I personally went through two strut/spring replacements in a short amount of time, and what I learned is that my stock springs were completely fine. I originally replaced the stock springs with aftermarket units due to the same concerns that the OP had and what I read on this forum. What was really causing the sag in the rear is the struts. They were so shot that they were affecting my ride height. When I went back to new Lexus struts and stock springs, I regained a perfectly level ride height, along with a soft ride. I also liked the construction of the OE springs much better than the aftermarket.
11-30-14, 07:36 AM
#9
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I personally went through two strut/spring replacements in a short amount of time, and what I learned is that my stock springs were completely fine. I originally replaced the stock springs with aftermarket units due to the same concerns that the OP had and what I read on this forum. What was really causing the sag in the rear is the struts. They were so shot that they were affecting my ride height. When I went back to new Lexus struts and stock springs, I regained a perfectly level ride height, along with a soft ride. I also liked the construction of the OE springs much better than the aftermarket.
11-29-16, 12:16 PM
#10
This is an interesting thread on the ES300 suspension. I replaced a 2010 Subaru Legacy 2.5i with 155,000 miles on the dial for this car with around 99k miles. I like the ride pretty well, though I think this car has some handling quirks that could be taken care of with better sway bars and maybe better dampers and/or springs.
The car is average at cornering and has an awful tendency to wander along indentations along the roadway. It tends to bottom out over speed humps at low to moderate speeds.
I have sent a letter to Whiteline about thicker front and rear sway bars to improve cornering and balance. For the meantime, I am going to enjoy the car as is for a while. I'm in no hurry to spend money at this point.
Overall, I love the nearly mint interior and the quiet interior.
The car is average at cornering and has an awful tendency to wander along indentations along the roadway. It tends to bottom out over speed humps at low to moderate speeds.
I have sent a letter to Whiteline about thicker front and rear sway bars to improve cornering and balance. For the meantime, I am going to enjoy the car as is for a while. I'm in no hurry to spend money at this point.
Overall, I love the nearly mint interior and the quiet interior.
10-10-23, 11:32 PM
#11
Apologies/Dead Thread/Probably stupid question
I recently purchased a 2002 Lexus ES300 with 184k miles, I know a lot of people want these vehicles for their ride quality. If I had not gotten such a good deal on this vehicle I probably would have purchased a different vehicle. That being said I am interested in lowering mine, not aggressively but lower. With the information provided in the thread am I correct to think these ( https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gab-g52103 ) will fit my ES? Local marketplace has all four NIB for $80. I am looking at these springs as I have had the brand on other vehicles and was very happy with the ride and the handling. https://shop.redline360.com/products...AaAhPjEALw_wcB
Or potentially these springs just unsure if these will mount properly like diameter and seating.
(https://www.proimporttuners.com/parts/2022-toyota/camry-eibach-pro-kit-springs.html?app_sel_type=def&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7JOpBhCfARIsAL3bobckF9pQK_HrhFvdZMoQxk0SM8OJ0Vy27E3Cn96Kvfrw-92xugTPaw4aAkgpEALw_wcB)
These are being sold locally for quite a bit less NIB.
Again I apologize for reviving this thread and if this has been covered elsewhere I am sorry, I am just in foreign territory with this vehicle and trying to get it setup to suit my driving. Thank you for any help you can provide.
Or potentially these springs just unsure if these will mount properly like diameter and seating.
(https://www.proimporttuners.com/parts/2022-toyota/camry-eibach-pro-kit-springs.html?app_sel_type=def&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7JOpBhCfARIsAL3bobckF9pQK_HrhFvdZMoQxk0SM8OJ0Vy27E3Cn96Kvfrw-92xugTPaw4aAkgpEALw_wcB)
These are being sold locally for quite a bit less NIB.
Again I apologize for reviving this thread and if this has been covered elsewhere I am sorry, I am just in foreign territory with this vehicle and trying to get it setup to suit my driving. Thank you for any help you can provide.
Last edited by And187; 10-10-23 at 11:41 PM.
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