skibear99

2003 ES300 Bought with 58K Miles in June of 2011.

No problems with the car so far, but as my friend's son recently had his timing chain on his VW GTI break, I thought that I'd see what people had to say on the subject.

I got a price of $500+ tax for replacing the Timing Chain, Water Pump, and Antifreeze from a mechanic I trust. (Located near JFK in Queens, NY.) Is that a reasonable price?

According to this mechanic, you're supposed to replace the chain at 90K Miles.

I put the most mileage on the car a couple of years ago, with a long commute, but have been in more stop and go traffic lately.

Can I wait a little bit while some additional fund$ come my way? Or, am I living on "Borrowed Time"?

BDSL

It is a timing belt....not chain.
As per your owner's manual, it needs to be replaced every xx miles or yy months which ever comes first.

$500 is a good price.

Oro

At 112k, I'd get it done soon. You are likely not in the serious danger zone yet, but why go there? It is overdue, and should be done. Especially at that price.

$500 is a very good price. Best deals, it is about $200 to $250 in parts/supplies (belt, pump, tensioner, upper and lower radiator hoses, fluids, acc. belts, etc.). So he is giving a very good labor rate on a PITA job.

I just did a major service to our 2002 last month and I spent $450 in parts to do the belt, replace worn odds and ends, Change all fluids to correct ones. Make sure he uses either a) Toyota LLC or b) Zerex Asian for the coolant. I bought the Toyota LLC from CarQuest; much cheaper than a Lexus or Toyota dealer, then diluted with dH2O from the supermarket. If it hasn't been done, I'd also have him change the PSP fluid and at least drain/fill the transmission fluid. MAG1 synthetic is an affordable alternative T-IV spec'd transmission fluid (finding T-IV fluid other than from Toyota is not easy).

When the T-belt is done, it's good to replace the radiator hoses; they weaken with age and use and it's little extra cost or effort to do so at the time.

I also found my upper torque strut shot (the mount between the RF upper strut mount and the engine bracket). Replacements are cheap on ebay or Amazon (about $20 vs. $120 at dealer or NAPA, etc) if you find yours worn. Look under the plastic seals that hide the actual pressed in rubber bushing to see if it is separated.

I ordered the majority of parts from Amazon as it was the best price shipped (prime helps). A few others from RockAuto. I used the Gates belt kit and it was great; some have found the alignment marks on Gates belt a bit off but I counted/aligned them and they were spot on. No worries there. Be sure to get a kit w/a tensioner (some do not include it). Do not re-use the tensioner as many do. I had an Acura that the dealership did that, and the tensioner failed 40k later and lost the time. The tensioner on these cars is identical to the one on the Acura that failed on me.

With a big chunk of engine accessories cleared away, it's also a good time to replace plugs and pcv valve ($6). getting at the back bank plugs is a pita so this is a good time. The car had I think 100k NGK FR6T-11 plugs, so it should be time to replace them, too.

Gratuitous add'l info. In the '90s, I would take my Audi V8 out to be serviced in Queens because the only mechanic I could trust was there. Went to an old audi racer named Bruno Kreibick on Onderdonk Ave. Some funny stories from those experiences.

ES300NZ

There is NO danger, the 1mz-fe is a non-interference engine (unless the vvti has kicked in).

lostape45

Better be safe than sorry, $500 is a great deal IMO. Also even if the belt was changed at say 60k, I would still recommend a replacement due to the age of the belt. Its meant to be 6yrs/90k miles whichever comes first.

Oro

The non VVT's 1MZ-FE's are non-interference, but I think his '99 is VVT and thus interference?

LeX2K

Variable valve timing varies the camshaft angle it doesn't change the opening height of the valves. Meaning if an engine is interference it could be damaged when the timing belt breaks no matter what the computer was telling the cam angle system to do.

Having said that, it is not 100% clear if a 1MZ with VVTi is interference or not, I'm leaning to not. The only way to be 100% certain is by checking by hand with the timing belt removed and the engine on a stand.

Oro

My research a while back came to an authoratative reference that said

- all 1MZ w/o VVT were non-interference
- all 1MZ with, were interference

I did not bookmark the reference as it was clear enough for me to remember. I will go see if I can find it again and if so post a link. Since the '99 has the VVT flavored engine, I'd assume it was interference.

But even if non interference, a breakage can mean a couple of hundred bucks in towing and emergency travel expenses if it break down somewhere besides your garage or your mechanic's. Thus, the cost of NOT doing it on a non-interference motor can be almost as high as just doing it as scheduled.

yeskay

that applies only to pre 99 models. 99+ models are vvti (interference engines)

BDSL

Guys, regardless if it is an interference or non-interference engine, it is DANGEROUS.
When the belt snaps, engine stops. You will lose power steering and vacuum assisted braking.
You can potentially stop in the middle of a highway.

yeskay

you are right on. Hope this forum has good posters like you than providing misleading posts.

ES300NZ

nope, .. it's an interference engine only when the VVTI is active, when it's not, it's a non interferance engine. I had a cambelt break in a 4age 20 valve, the engine was just purring at 2200rpm, so the cam solenoid hadn't activated so no damage.

ES300NZ

That doesn't make sense 'lose braking + stopping'.

- I had a cambelt break on a major motorway with no shoulder, middle of a HUGE high bridge/flyover. Probably the worse place ever to have that happen. I was doing 100kph at the time.

The engine simply stopped running. The car kept rolling, wouldn't restart and the starting sounded odd 'like a free run'.

I simply rolled on, with my hazards on, and pulled over when I had a chance after the bridge, no drama. Got a tow truck home. Fixed the car for like $200, and it was fine.

Oro

True, but how do you time the break so the VVT gear is in the non-interference portion of it's dwell arc? Maybe you get lucky, maybe you don't...

I agree with you though that it's not a huge disaster to lose it on the road - it's like losing an accessory belt or similar event. Put on hazards, exit roadway...

In a non-interference motor, I would not at all get too upset. I had a premature belt failure once in a non-interference motor and like you, a week and $200 later, I was all good. But I see real risk with the VVT motors. 112k is not scary far out of the service life, but the risk/reward ratio is too skewed to postpone it much.

ES300NZ

I was about to write

Then I realised that lift might not be something which is altered by VVTI, and so whether the engine is VVTI or not shouldn't matter.

In theory this should have occurred to me earlier than 5 posts into my argument, but it didnt.