Suspension Changed; Lost Lexus "Glide"
11-13-13, 03:15 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
Did you get a credit for the KYBs that you returned. What about the labor? Any discount on that?
And yes, by all means, post back with your experience with the OE Struts.
Phil
And yes, by all means, post back with your experience with the OE Struts.
Phil
11-13-13, 07:32 PM
#33
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No charge on the swap out; they already made their money on the mark-up of the KYBs and labor charged previously. I very much appreciate their willingness to make the change, but after all, they recommended the KYBs as the equivalent replacement in the first place. I'm just glad I got the advice here to make sure that I insisted on original Toyota suspension parts (other than the KYBs) so a wholesale (or piecemeal) swap out wasn't necessary. I'll let everyone know the results.
11-19-13, 09:19 AM
#35
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Swapped out the KYB's for Toyota OE, difference is night and day...still not willing to say that the ride is as smooth as it was with the AVS (maybe there was some active dampening going on after all?), but it is much, much improved over what it was after the KYB install. The KYB's are clearly good struts, but I just can't recommend them if you look at your Lexus as a comfortable-riding long distance automobile. And if you never had AVS, I'm betting you'll think the Toyota OE struts will restore the ride you were accustomed to. Thanks again to everyone here who chimed in with their experiences.
11-19-13, 02:34 PM
#36
Swapped out the KYB's for Toyota OE, difference is night and day...still not willing to say that the ride is as smooth as it was with the AVS (maybe there was some active dampening going on after all?), but it is much, much improved over what it was after the KYB install. The KYB's are clearly good struts, but I just can't recommend them if you look at your Lexus as a comfortable-riding long distance automobile. And if you never had AVS, I'm betting you'll think the Toyota OE struts will restore the ride you were accustomed to. Thanks again to everyone here who chimed in with their experiences.
11-20-13, 03:47 AM
#37
Lead Lap
Oh man I missed an AVS party! Avory glad to hear it confirmed what I and Mr. B already knew...nothing rides like those stock struts. From my years of experience with stock and modified performance suspension, I learned the shocks are the brains of the suspension. I had those Tokicos and they are even sportier than the GR-2s! This is the reality of the stock replacement parts industry...as mentioned before the same strut is spec'd for every car it fits, Camry, ES, Avalon Solara etc. so you don't get a specific part. Also the end customer is DIY or a mechanic looking to fix their customer up for the cheapest price, so the parts quality is crap. The OEM stuff is made to go 100-200k miles say but the aftermarket stuff is made to last 50k if that. The pricing of OEM parts sucks, but what can you do, they are the only quality parts most of the time. Glad you did not get the KYB strut mounts, I already had that experience, swapped to OEM clunks are gone ;-) It is just atrocious you can't trust some of the aftermarket parts to work on day one much less last any length of time. It is hard to blame the mechanic, probably 99% of the time a customer doesn't know any better, they get new struts and don't come back with any problems. My wife will happily drive forever with a clunk or grind because "it as an old car they make noise" she just don't care good thing I drive her car once in a while!
For me, I had a lot of time and patience, so I did complete the swap to the AVS suspension but it was uncharted territory. I did buy used JDM struts and ship them around the world but I had to buy 8 of 'em to get 4 good ones. When one blows I will pony up the dough for a new one. You can get the AVS struts down to $320/ea or so through this site's discount program with Sewell Lexus.
If I had gotten to you, or the 12 other people that have the AVS system ha, in the beginning I would have told you to take a different tack. Our Lexus is just a Camry right, so people want to throw new parts at a problem. When you factor in $500 a peice struts you have to think different. You have to treat the car like a fine German or perhaps Italian automobile. You need to find a mechanic who will diagnose the actual problem (i.e. left rear strut blown) and then fix just that part. I also found (and Mr B. will agree I think) I was hot to replace all the parts, strut mounts and spring seats and whatnot, but those parts were actually just fine at 100k so replacing them is perhaps prudent but not required.
I could have told you the AVS system would be fine replacing the struts with non-AVS, there is no outward dash light or indication of trouble with the AVS system, to diagnose it you have to hook up a light and put into diag mode. When you turn the car off all the diag codes are lost. You'll never know the AVS can't find those struts ;-) BTW if it helps my impressions on the system, the "normal" one-up from soft setting on the AVS is closest to the stock non-AVS ride, the Lexus Service Manual for the car gives you the impression that is so and it feels that way to me too. The best part for me is the ability to dial in the soft ride, which is necessarily "floaty" in the corners, or I can dial that out with a twist of the **** when I want a sporty feeling. I myself find a pretty big difference between at least 3 of the settings and enjoy the AVS system greatly but then I am a bit of a suspension geek. There are actually 10 settings of stiffness on the shocks, and the computer controls them separately front and rear based on engine data, steering sensor, G-sensor etc.. So even in the "normal" setting, when you brake hard, or bend into a corner quickly, the AVS is stiffening up the shocks as you go, so there is a bit of "best of both worlds" there. It is a shame the way this was a super rare option on the ES much like the Nakamichi Stereo on the non-Coach/Platinum models, but yet so worth the price when the car was new. Toyota/Lexus is odd that way with regional limitations or set option packages. In Japan the Toyota Windom (JDM verison of our ES) the AVS was pretty much standard equipment, you would have trouble finding a car without the system.
For me, I had a lot of time and patience, so I did complete the swap to the AVS suspension but it was uncharted territory. I did buy used JDM struts and ship them around the world but I had to buy 8 of 'em to get 4 good ones. When one blows I will pony up the dough for a new one. You can get the AVS struts down to $320/ea or so through this site's discount program with Sewell Lexus.
If I had gotten to you, or the 12 other people that have the AVS system ha, in the beginning I would have told you to take a different tack. Our Lexus is just a Camry right, so people want to throw new parts at a problem. When you factor in $500 a peice struts you have to think different. You have to treat the car like a fine German or perhaps Italian automobile. You need to find a mechanic who will diagnose the actual problem (i.e. left rear strut blown) and then fix just that part. I also found (and Mr B. will agree I think) I was hot to replace all the parts, strut mounts and spring seats and whatnot, but those parts were actually just fine at 100k so replacing them is perhaps prudent but not required.
I could have told you the AVS system would be fine replacing the struts with non-AVS, there is no outward dash light or indication of trouble with the AVS system, to diagnose it you have to hook up a light and put into diag mode. When you turn the car off all the diag codes are lost. You'll never know the AVS can't find those struts ;-) BTW if it helps my impressions on the system, the "normal" one-up from soft setting on the AVS is closest to the stock non-AVS ride, the Lexus Service Manual for the car gives you the impression that is so and it feels that way to me too. The best part for me is the ability to dial in the soft ride, which is necessarily "floaty" in the corners, or I can dial that out with a twist of the **** when I want a sporty feeling. I myself find a pretty big difference between at least 3 of the settings and enjoy the AVS system greatly but then I am a bit of a suspension geek. There are actually 10 settings of stiffness on the shocks, and the computer controls them separately front and rear based on engine data, steering sensor, G-sensor etc.. So even in the "normal" setting, when you brake hard, or bend into a corner quickly, the AVS is stiffening up the shocks as you go, so there is a bit of "best of both worlds" there. It is a shame the way this was a super rare option on the ES much like the Nakamichi Stereo on the non-Coach/Platinum models, but yet so worth the price when the car was new. Toyota/Lexus is odd that way with regional limitations or set option packages. In Japan the Toyota Windom (JDM verison of our ES) the AVS was pretty much standard equipment, you would have trouble finding a car without the system.
Last edited by Power6; 11-20-13 at 03:54 AM.
04-07-14, 08:55 PM
#38
04-08-14, 09:36 AM
#40
Lead Lap
Mr B the springs aren't going to do it I think. The blues are sporty.
06-04-14, 07:45 AM
#43
Question here, if I keep my stock springs but go the KYB route, will I get a stiffer ride, or will it be similar to OEM? Still deciding whether or not to dish out the money for oem struts
06-04-14, 12:24 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
If you purchased the silver GR-2 struts from KYB, there lies your problem. While the stock struts are made by KYB, they are made with valving specifications from Lexus. The GR-2 is a replacement strut that is valved firmer than stock and will never settle down to that lexus feel you are used to. I know because I went through the same thing in my other car and never got the original ride back with the GR-2s. Unfortunately, if you want that ride back, you are better off buying the OEM standard struts (not AVS) and installing them in place of your GR-2s. Only then will you have that Lexus ride back.