Are all 3VZ-FE engines the same? Some other questions also...
03-19-13, 05:47 PM
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Are all 3VZ-FE engines the same? Some other questions also...
Hello. I have a rare manual trans 93 ES300 that needs a new motor. The engine blew a head gasket a few years ago and I just kept putting water in it and driving it until the engine eventually would overheat after a few miles. Anyway, on its last trip it got so hot that the engine locked up. Don't ask me why I didn't fix it before that. It was a bad time in my life and I just didn't care but all is good now.
So now I am finally ready to replace the motor. I found one with 110k on it from a 93 Camry for $500 that I would like to buy. But before I do...
My question is:
Are there any differences between the manual trans 3VZ-FE engines and the auto trans 3VZ-FE engines?
I am asking this because I have a manual trans and the replacement engine is probably coming from an auto trans Camry. I really don't want any suprises or issues when I am doing the swap because the new engine has a 30 day warranty so I want to get the swap done as quickly as possible so I will have 20+ days of driving to determine if there are any issues with the new engine.
I am really looking foward to driving my Lexus again. Its been like 3 years. It is a great car even though it is a base model. I wish it had a sunroof but I like that it doesn't have leather seats to freeze my butt in the winter and burn it in the summer. It is easy to drive and rides so nicely. I don't see too many like it on the road anymore and I like to be different. So many cars out there all look the same to me...
I am planning on replacing the water pump and the timing belt on the new engine before the installation for peace of mind. I figure it will be much easier to do it that way than with the engine in the car. I already bought a new Exedy oem replacement clutch kit.
Where should I get the timing belt and water pump? What brands can I trust?
I would like to buy a new OEM timing belt and tensioner unless someone suggests something else that is just as good for less $. I am not so sure about the water pump. Anything OEM is probably very expensive. I am concerned about the quality of aftermarket replacement parts out there these days. I really want to avoid any future issues that can arise because I chose to use cheaper, lower quality parts. I am willing to spend the extra $ for the peace of mind but not twice as much or something crazy like that.
Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
So now I am finally ready to replace the motor. I found one with 110k on it from a 93 Camry for $500 that I would like to buy. But before I do...
My question is:
Are there any differences between the manual trans 3VZ-FE engines and the auto trans 3VZ-FE engines?
I am asking this because I have a manual trans and the replacement engine is probably coming from an auto trans Camry. I really don't want any suprises or issues when I am doing the swap because the new engine has a 30 day warranty so I want to get the swap done as quickly as possible so I will have 20+ days of driving to determine if there are any issues with the new engine.
I am really looking foward to driving my Lexus again. Its been like 3 years. It is a great car even though it is a base model. I wish it had a sunroof but I like that it doesn't have leather seats to freeze my butt in the winter and burn it in the summer. It is easy to drive and rides so nicely. I don't see too many like it on the road anymore and I like to be different. So many cars out there all look the same to me...
I am planning on replacing the water pump and the timing belt on the new engine before the installation for peace of mind. I figure it will be much easier to do it that way than with the engine in the car. I already bought a new Exedy oem replacement clutch kit.
Where should I get the timing belt and water pump? What brands can I trust?
I would like to buy a new OEM timing belt and tensioner unless someone suggests something else that is just as good for less $. I am not so sure about the water pump. Anything OEM is probably very expensive. I am concerned about the quality of aftermarket replacement parts out there these days. I really want to avoid any future issues that can arise because I chose to use cheaper, lower quality parts. I am willing to spend the extra $ for the peace of mind but not twice as much or something crazy like that.
Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
03-19-13, 06:52 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Mechanically the engines are the same. The wiring harness will have differences because of the auto transmission, so you will have to swap over at least some parts of the harness (or maybe even the entire thing). There is also a vacuum pod that bumps up against the throttle stop that will not be on the auto tranny engine, but you can just swap that over.
And of course you will have to swap out the flex plate for the flywheel.
OEM parts are not really much more expensive if you buy them on Ebay or an online Toyota dealer.
And of course you will have to swap out the flex plate for the flywheel.
OEM parts are not really much more expensive if you buy them on Ebay or an online Toyota dealer.
03-19-13, 08:42 PM
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Ok. So, I need to make sure the Camry engine will have the wiring harness with it?
I know I needed to swap the flex plate.
I will be buying OEM parts if they are comparable in price.
I know I needed to swap the flex plate.
I will be buying OEM parts if they are comparable in price.
03-19-13, 08:50 PM
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I'm not sure if you can use the automatic harness or not, you may have to swap your current one onto the new engine. If it was me, that's how I would do it. The ECU is different between the two engines.
03-20-13, 07:33 AM
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Yeah. I was going to just swap my current harness onto the new engine. I was kinda confused when you said I needed to use some or all of the auto engine harness.
Thanks for the help!
Thanks for the help!
03-20-13, 10:43 AM
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While the engine is out of the car, I would suggest replacing the headgasket anyway. The 3VZFE head gasket is not MLS (Multi-layered-steel) like the 1mzfe and pretty much every engine after that. Therefore it is more prone to blowing regardless how well you keep it cooled. Just bad design.
It's so much easier to fix it while the engine is out, and while you're at it, buy a decent dremel tool and port and polish the heads. And change those spark plugs.
It's so much easier to fix it while the engine is out, and while you're at it, buy a decent dremel tool and port and polish the heads. And change those spark plugs.
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03-20-13, 11:20 PM
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I called the place that had the $500 Camry 3VZ-FE engine with 110k miles on it earlier today. Of course, I didn't talk to the same guy I talked to a few weeks ago and now they are saying they have no record of this engine ever being in their system. Weird. I am kinda glad that option is gone now. I think I am going to completely rebuild the original engine if the major components are still usable.
Here is why I don't think the old engine is completely dead and why I might be able to rebuild it:
Suprisingly, I was able to start the engine and drive the car home the day after the engine seized. I am thinking one piston must have expanded much more than usual due to the high engine temps over many miles and then it seized in its bore. After the car sat dead on the side of the road for 12 hours, the piston that seized must have cooled down and gotten smaller and then un-seized. On the final trip home, the engine didn't feel like it had lost any noticable power so the piston that seized couldn't have been hurt too badly. Of course I wasn't driving hard or very fast, but the engine wasn't making any unusual noises that would indicate there was any major internal damage occuring.
If the cylinder heads, block, and rotating assembly are not burned up or cracked or have any other major issues that simple re-build machine work won't clean-up, I will re-use them. Not the pistons, bearings, etc, of course. The engine was still spinning and sounded ok when I got home, so I am thinking the crank and rods are still re-usable. Hopefully, they won't need anything other than new bearings if everything measures within spec.
I originally wanted to get a replacement engine and do a motor swap because it would be a lot less time consuming and probably cheaper than a complete engine rebuild.
But after learning about the weak stock gasket, I am a little worried about swapping in a replacement engine and just hoping for the best.
I am very lucky. I work in my father's automotive machine shop where we specialize in the repair of aluminum engine blocks and cylinder heads. The majority of the repairs are to aluminum V8 engine blocks and heads that been damaged in dirt track competition. Mostly sprint cars and dirt late model stuff but also drag racing, truck and tractor pullers, street engines, the list goes on and on. We have seen and repaired every form of engine damage.
We are limited in what we can do though. We do not have the tooling for our head machine to do valve-jobs on the four valve OHC cylinder heads used on most production street car engines. We have most of our tooling set up to repair two valve V8 heads that have much bigger valve sizes compared to a four valve head. We don't even do finish valve jobs on those heads either. That is left to the engine builders we are doing the repair work for. We do the machine work to a point where they can perform a final valve job.
So to make a long story short, I will find someone do a valve job for me if I can re-use my heads. Hopefully, the cylinder heads didn't get so hot that the aluminum got soft and lost its integrity and is ready to melt or crack or is extremely warped and melted already or any other bad stuff like that. I can deck, bore, and finish hone the engine block myself to whatever it needs. I can surface the cylinder heads as well. If my heads are damaged or have been compromised significantly, I will probably just find some usable replacements and rebuild them.
I would like to get new valves and valve springs if the valve guides are not too worn out. The car has 212k miles on it. They might be ok now but I don't want any future issues with fatigued parts that I can replace now. I hoping to reuse everything else that is still within spec. I want this engine to be as close to new as possible. I have the thick two volume factory manuals that covers EVERYTHING for my model which is awesome!
I figure that completely rebuilding the engine with all new pistons, bearings, seals, gaskets, etc etc will be the only way I will ever have complete peace of mind. Plus, everything will be nice and clean and fresh just the way I like it.
After I get the engine out and disassembled, my next issue will be finding a good deal on a quality rebuild kit with most of the necessary parts I need.
Anybody have any recommendations where I can get a reasonably priced, quality rebuild kit? What are the good brands? What kits and/or parts of these kits should I not use? I see some cheap rebuild kits on ebay that are kinda scary cheap to me. Can they be trusted?
I know I will need to find some head gaskets that are better than stock. I am not going to use cheap, low quality parts anywhere in this re-build. The goal here is peace of mind that I won't have any issues with my newly rebuilt engine for a long long time or ever.
Here is why I don't think the old engine is completely dead and why I might be able to rebuild it:
Suprisingly, I was able to start the engine and drive the car home the day after the engine seized. I am thinking one piston must have expanded much more than usual due to the high engine temps over many miles and then it seized in its bore. After the car sat dead on the side of the road for 12 hours, the piston that seized must have cooled down and gotten smaller and then un-seized. On the final trip home, the engine didn't feel like it had lost any noticable power so the piston that seized couldn't have been hurt too badly. Of course I wasn't driving hard or very fast, but the engine wasn't making any unusual noises that would indicate there was any major internal damage occuring.
If the cylinder heads, block, and rotating assembly are not burned up or cracked or have any other major issues that simple re-build machine work won't clean-up, I will re-use them. Not the pistons, bearings, etc, of course. The engine was still spinning and sounded ok when I got home, so I am thinking the crank and rods are still re-usable. Hopefully, they won't need anything other than new bearings if everything measures within spec.
I originally wanted to get a replacement engine and do a motor swap because it would be a lot less time consuming and probably cheaper than a complete engine rebuild.
But after learning about the weak stock gasket, I am a little worried about swapping in a replacement engine and just hoping for the best.
I am very lucky. I work in my father's automotive machine shop where we specialize in the repair of aluminum engine blocks and cylinder heads. The majority of the repairs are to aluminum V8 engine blocks and heads that been damaged in dirt track competition. Mostly sprint cars and dirt late model stuff but also drag racing, truck and tractor pullers, street engines, the list goes on and on. We have seen and repaired every form of engine damage.
We are limited in what we can do though. We do not have the tooling for our head machine to do valve-jobs on the four valve OHC cylinder heads used on most production street car engines. We have most of our tooling set up to repair two valve V8 heads that have much bigger valve sizes compared to a four valve head. We don't even do finish valve jobs on those heads either. That is left to the engine builders we are doing the repair work for. We do the machine work to a point where they can perform a final valve job.
So to make a long story short, I will find someone do a valve job for me if I can re-use my heads. Hopefully, the cylinder heads didn't get so hot that the aluminum got soft and lost its integrity and is ready to melt or crack or is extremely warped and melted already or any other bad stuff like that. I can deck, bore, and finish hone the engine block myself to whatever it needs. I can surface the cylinder heads as well. If my heads are damaged or have been compromised significantly, I will probably just find some usable replacements and rebuild them.
I would like to get new valves and valve springs if the valve guides are not too worn out. The car has 212k miles on it. They might be ok now but I don't want any future issues with fatigued parts that I can replace now. I hoping to reuse everything else that is still within spec. I want this engine to be as close to new as possible. I have the thick two volume factory manuals that covers EVERYTHING for my model which is awesome!
I figure that completely rebuilding the engine with all new pistons, bearings, seals, gaskets, etc etc will be the only way I will ever have complete peace of mind. Plus, everything will be nice and clean and fresh just the way I like it.
After I get the engine out and disassembled, my next issue will be finding a good deal on a quality rebuild kit with most of the necessary parts I need.
Anybody have any recommendations where I can get a reasonably priced, quality rebuild kit? What are the good brands? What kits and/or parts of these kits should I not use? I see some cheap rebuild kits on ebay that are kinda scary cheap to me. Can they be trusted?
I know I will need to find some head gaskets that are better than stock. I am not going to use cheap, low quality parts anywhere in this re-build. The goal here is peace of mind that I won't have any issues with my newly rebuilt engine for a long long time or ever.
03-26-13, 12:44 PM
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search lexus genuine parts
http://www.lexuspartsnow.com/
a head gasket rebuild process from a old thread, reference it may be give something help, many detail pics in it
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...49k-miles.html
http://s69.photobucket.com/user/llco...MAR2009?page=1
http://www.lexuspartsnow.com/
a head gasket rebuild process from a old thread, reference it may be give something help, many detail pics in it
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...49k-miles.html
http://s69.photobucket.com/user/llco...MAR2009?page=1
03-26-13, 06:13 PM
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Today, I purchased a complete 3VZ-FE rebuild kit on ebay for $265 shipped! The kit includes everything. Oversize pistons, rings, pumps, timing belt, tensioner, gaskets, seals, etc. It was on sale for 15% off the original price and was the cheapest, most complete kit I found on ebay. It is mind boggling to think about how some of these overseas manufacturers can make these parts, ship them to a distributor in the US, then ship them to me for free, and some how both of them still make a profit. Truly amazing.
Here is a link if anyone is interested in what I got:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370459978733...84.m1497.l2649
Im not sure if I will upgrade the head gaskets and timing belt. I will probably use everything that comes in the kit and just hope for the best! I'm feeling lucky! Hopefully it won't come back to haunt me! Im not doing any engine mods. I will probably just clean up any casting flaws in the intake and exhaust ports and thats about it. Any other work would be pointless because I am leaving everything else stock like the intake and exhaust. I was doing some research and from what I have read I can change the timing a little bit for more power because the 3VZ-FE has a distributor. Gotta do some more reading to make sure that is legitimate.
Hopefully there is no major damage to my heads, block, or rotating assembly. I know any damage can be repaired but I am trying to keep the costs and my time involved to a minimum. I will be removing and disassembling the engine this weekend. I will keep this thread updated for anyone out there that is actually following it. LOL. Wish me luck!
Here is a link if anyone is interested in what I got:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370459978733...84.m1497.l2649
Im not sure if I will upgrade the head gaskets and timing belt. I will probably use everything that comes in the kit and just hope for the best! I'm feeling lucky! Hopefully it won't come back to haunt me! Im not doing any engine mods. I will probably just clean up any casting flaws in the intake and exhaust ports and thats about it. Any other work would be pointless because I am leaving everything else stock like the intake and exhaust. I was doing some research and from what I have read I can change the timing a little bit for more power because the 3VZ-FE has a distributor. Gotta do some more reading to make sure that is legitimate.
Hopefully there is no major damage to my heads, block, or rotating assembly. I know any damage can be repaired but I am trying to keep the costs and my time involved to a minimum. I will be removing and disassembling the engine this weekend. I will keep this thread updated for anyone out there that is actually following it. LOL. Wish me luck!
03-26-13, 07:51 PM
#12
Today, I purchased a complete 3VZ-FE rebuild kit on ebay for $265 shipped! The kit includes everything. Oversize pistons, rings, pumps, timing belt, tensioner, gaskets, seals, etc. It was on sale for 15% off the original price and was the cheapest, most complete kit I found on ebay. It is mind boggling to think about how some of these overseas manufacturers can make these parts, ship them to a distributor in the US, then ship them to me for free, and some how both of them still make a profit. Truly amazing.
Here is a link if anyone is interested in what I got:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370459978733...84.m1497.l2649
Im not sure if I will upgrade the head gaskets and timing belt. I will probably use everything that comes in the kit and just hope for the best! I'm feeling lucky! Hopefully it won't come back to haunt me! Im not doing any engine mods. I will probably just clean up any casting flaws in the intake and exhaust ports and thats about it. Any other work would be pointless because I am leaving everything else stock like the intake and exhaust. I was doing some research and from what I have read I can change the timing a little bit for more power because the 3VZ-FE has a distributor. Gotta do some more reading to make sure that is legitimate.
Hopefully there is no major damage to my heads, block, or rotating assembly. I know any damage can be repaired but I am trying to keep the costs and my time involved to a minimum. I will be removing and disassembling the engine this weekend. I will keep this thread updated for anyone out there that is actually following it. LOL. Wish me luck!
Here is a link if anyone is interested in what I got:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370459978733...84.m1497.l2649
Im not sure if I will upgrade the head gaskets and timing belt. I will probably use everything that comes in the kit and just hope for the best! I'm feeling lucky! Hopefully it won't come back to haunt me! Im not doing any engine mods. I will probably just clean up any casting flaws in the intake and exhaust ports and thats about it. Any other work would be pointless because I am leaving everything else stock like the intake and exhaust. I was doing some research and from what I have read I can change the timing a little bit for more power because the 3VZ-FE has a distributor. Gotta do some more reading to make sure that is legitimate.
Hopefully there is no major damage to my heads, block, or rotating assembly. I know any damage can be repaired but I am trying to keep the costs and my time involved to a minimum. I will be removing and disassembling the engine this weekend. I will keep this thread updated for anyone out there that is actually following it. LOL. Wish me luck!
03-26-13, 07:55 PM
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While I was doing some 3VZ-FE rebuild research, I actually found the answer to my original question! It is so weird how things work out sometimes. There is a difference between the auto trans 3VZ-FE engines and the manual trans 3VZ-FE engines. The manual trans engine's crankshafts have a recessed bore machined into the end of them to accept the manual trans input shaft.
Here is the thread where I found this info:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...e-rebuild.html
My dad told me the same thing when I asked him about what might be different about the engines. He referenced his old days of swapping manual and automatic transmission small block Chevys saying that the ends of the crankshafts were different to accept the input shaft.
I thought I would add this info for those out there who were looking for the answer to the same question that I had. I am really glad I didn't end up getting that auto trans Camry 3VZ-FE engine I was hoping to get. I would have been very mad at myself for not doing more research and just assuming that it would be the same.
And Im not trying to be an *******, but anyone on a forum that pretends to be knowledgable or provides information like they are certain of the facts, really shouldn't just assume that they know what is the same and what is different about similar engines with the same name especially when it is about something as important as the compatibility of drivetrain parts in an engine swap. I understand that it is up to the person asking the question to verify the information given to them but damn...I could've really screwed myself bad if I believed and trusted someone that seemed so certain about the information they provided. Just something to think about next time....
Here is the thread where I found this info:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...e-rebuild.html
My dad told me the same thing when I asked him about what might be different about the engines. He referenced his old days of swapping manual and automatic transmission small block Chevys saying that the ends of the crankshafts were different to accept the input shaft.
I thought I would add this info for those out there who were looking for the answer to the same question that I had. I am really glad I didn't end up getting that auto trans Camry 3VZ-FE engine I was hoping to get. I would have been very mad at myself for not doing more research and just assuming that it would be the same.
And Im not trying to be an *******, but anyone on a forum that pretends to be knowledgable or provides information like they are certain of the facts, really shouldn't just assume that they know what is the same and what is different about similar engines with the same name especially when it is about something as important as the compatibility of drivetrain parts in an engine swap. I understand that it is up to the person asking the question to verify the information given to them but damn...I could've really screwed myself bad if I believed and trusted someone that seemed so certain about the information they provided. Just something to think about next time....
03-26-13, 08:26 PM
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Hey Bdub, I am located 25 miles south of Harrisburg. You have the same year and 5-speed model ES300 that I do. Maybe my next step after the rebuild will be suspension mods. Maybe you can hook me up with some links or other info to help me out with the suspension?
Not sure if it is even worth it for me to modify my car though. My car's body isn't perfect and the chassis has 212000 miles on it. I am starting to get some bubbling in the paint at the corner of the driver's side quarter panel by the door because of rust. It isn't too bad at this point and the car still looks good overall when cleaned up. I will probably swap the front bumper with a nicer one I found at a salvage yard. The paint is still shiny and the interior still looks good but is not perfect. The wheels have some brake dust burnt onto them which really annoys me. I will probably swap them out for nicer stock wheels or upgrade to something better.
I do like the look of a slightly lowered ES300 but I am not willing to downgrade from the ride quality and smoothness of the stock suspension just to improve the looks of the car or for the performance benefits of aftermarket suspension. I really have no desire to corner faster or have a higher performance suspension. Every lowered car I have ever ridden in was terrible. I felt every little bump and was not comfortable at all.
Not sure if it is even worth it for me to modify my car though. My car's body isn't perfect and the chassis has 212000 miles on it. I am starting to get some bubbling in the paint at the corner of the driver's side quarter panel by the door because of rust. It isn't too bad at this point and the car still looks good overall when cleaned up. I will probably swap the front bumper with a nicer one I found at a salvage yard. The paint is still shiny and the interior still looks good but is not perfect. The wheels have some brake dust burnt onto them which really annoys me. I will probably swap them out for nicer stock wheels or upgrade to something better.
I do like the look of a slightly lowered ES300 but I am not willing to downgrade from the ride quality and smoothness of the stock suspension just to improve the looks of the car or for the performance benefits of aftermarket suspension. I really have no desire to corner faster or have a higher performance suspension. Every lowered car I have ever ridden in was terrible. I felt every little bump and was not comfortable at all.
03-26-13, 08:36 PM
#15
Hey Bdub, I am located 25 miles south of Harrisburg. You have the same year and 5-speed model ES300 that I do. Maybe my next step after the rebuild will be suspension mods. Maybe you can hook me up with some links or other info to help me out with the suspension?
Not sure if it is even worth it for me to modify my car though. My car's body isn't perfect and the chassis has 212000 miles on it. I am starting to get some bubbling in the paint at the corner of the driver's side quarter panel by the door because of rust. It isn't too bad at this point and the car still looks good overall when cleaned up. I will probably swap the front bumper with a nicer one I found at a salvage yard. The paint is still shiny and the interior still looks good but is not perfect. The wheels have some brake dust burnt onto them which really annoys me. I will probably swap them out for nicer stock wheels or upgrade to something better.
I do like the look of a slightly lowered ES300 but I am not willing to downgrade from the ride quality and smoothness of the stock suspension just to improve the looks of the car or for the performance benefits of aftermarket suspension. I really have no desire to corner faster or have a higher performance suspension. Every lowered car I have ever ridden in was terrible. I felt every little bump and was not comfortable at all.
Not sure if it is even worth it for me to modify my car though. My car's body isn't perfect and the chassis has 212000 miles on it. I am starting to get some bubbling in the paint at the corner of the driver's side quarter panel by the door because of rust. It isn't too bad at this point and the car still looks good overall when cleaned up. I will probably swap the front bumper with a nicer one I found at a salvage yard. The paint is still shiny and the interior still looks good but is not perfect. The wheels have some brake dust burnt onto them which really annoys me. I will probably swap them out for nicer stock wheels or upgrade to something better.
I do like the look of a slightly lowered ES300 but I am not willing to downgrade from the ride quality and smoothness of the stock suspension just to improve the looks of the car or for the performance benefits of aftermarket suspension. I really have no desire to corner faster or have a higher performance suspension. Every lowered car I have ever ridden in was terrible. I felt every little bump and was not comfortable at all.