Premium, middle grade or regular? (merged threads)
#272
Driver School Candidate
Considering that the car is 10+ years old with 73k miles on it and has been burning regular the entire time, I think it's safe to say that using regular isn't going to make bad things happen to your car. The engine has knock sensors, and so as long as those are working and you are hearing no obvious detonation, you won't damage the engine. Premium will allow for more advanced timing, thus giving you some more power and greater efficiency, it will be up to you to decide if the extra expense is worth it. You will find some people who say they can tell a dramatic difference and others who can detect none at all. Given that, I would suggest that you just experiment yourself. It won't cost you a bunch of money, just a few extra bucks a tank for premium, and you won't have to depend on a bunch of guys on the internet. In a perfect experiment, you wouldn't know what grade of fuel is in the car and you would be driving an identical route in an identical fashion. If you know what fuel you're burning, then any subjective criteria like engine smoothness and "pickup" may be affected by your perception of how you think it should be. If you think that you should be getting better mileage because you're using premium, it may affect the way you drive and therefore contaminate the results. So, if you really want to have an objective experiment, have someone else fill the car and not tell you what's in it. It would be best to run several consecutive tanks of the same grade before changing to the other, because unless you run it almost completely dry the resulting mixture is going to be a weighted average of what was in the tank and what you put in. In terms of absolute accuracy, you should calculate the mpg manually, reset the trip odo and divide miles by gallons at every fillup. However, just to figure out whether you're getting better mpg, you can simply reset the avg mpg display after every tank, or even only after several tanks of the same grade so you can sort of even out the fluctuations you'll get in normal driving. It may not be exactly accurate, but it will indicate whether one grade gives you significantly better mpg than another. The more tanks you run through and the more consistent you are in your driving the more useful the results are going to be.
#273
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Here is another perspective. You will lose about 5-10 horsepower also by using 87 octane. My 1991 ZR1 Corvette had a graph showing the difference between 87-91 octane and horsepower. I would personally use 91-93. You will get better performance and ensure that the engine does not ping or detonate. And as others have stated the motor has a fairly high compression ration, so higher octane is beneficial.
#274
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Not so fast my Kiwi ES brother...we use a different octane rating system in the New World...R+M/2 vs. the RON rating used in much of the rest of the world including NZ. Your 91/95/98 petrol is roughly equivalent to our 87/91/93 rated gasoline ;-) Though not all of the US can get 93-94 octane.
Every month when I go out of town for work. More kilometres/ L too !
#275
Lead Lap
My dad was a chemist by degree and worked in that field when I was a young'n. They used to have drums of benzene hanging around his workplace, the guys would fill their tanks with it, he ran his '81 Civic on the stuff. He swore it ran great on the ~100 octane benzene. Burnt lots of valves though but I think many of those CVCC motors did that.
#277
Here is another perspective. You will lose about 5-10 horsepower also by using 87 octane. My 1991 ZR1 Corvette had a graph showing the difference between 87-91 octane and horsepower. I would personally use 91-93. You will get better performance and ensure that the engine does not ping or detonate. And as others have stated the motor has a fairly high compression ration, so higher octane is beneficial.
As long as your car is performing acceptably on regular, the proper measurement to be concerned about is cents per mile, not miles per gallon. All else being equal, if you pay 10% more for 5% better fuel economy, then you're wasting money to get better fuel economy. Your percentage increase in fuel economy has to at least match the percentage increase in fuel cost if you want it to make sense economically. And once again, we're back to trying it out for yourself to decide if using premium is worth it. That's the bottom line. Don't pay any attention to me or anyone else, find out for yourself, just be objective.
#278
Lead Lap
iTrader: (10)
So far this winter i'm already ahead of the game vs. this time last year since i can idle it more, and my mileage doesn't suffer as much as it did on 87 with the same amount of idling. I'm filling up less weekly than I was with 87 just a few months ago. I don't have the empirical data to back it up as i 'converted' a few months ago now, but I can feel the car running better. Even my old man that used to drive the thing before i took it over, said it runs far better than his newer RX, and felt better than when he used to drive it.
Long story short, i'm going to find out for sure what the gain [if any] will be this summer on 91. I refuse to run 89 as well since it too contains ethanol and some additives in the winters here.
Basically, this is the sole 'right answer' in this thread. You can run whatever, but I too was hard headed until i gave it a shot myself...
#279
Lead Lap
Trying to stay out of the religious argument, but I question those who say they "get better fuel economy" on premium...anecdotes are great but there is no objective testing out there to support it and certainly not at the price difference you pay (if you have a link bring it on!). Efficiency improvement is largely at high load like WOT, not cruising, and high octane gas does not have any more energy than the low grade stuff. The "being nice to my car" is marketing drivel...gas is usually the same between grades and if you use a Top Tier gas, part of the requirement is that the additive detergents have to be the same in all grades.
I use the 91 because I hear a little throttle tip-in knock so it makes me feel better. I'm not under any delusions I am saving any money or lengthening the lifetime of my car though.
I use the 91 because I hear a little throttle tip-in knock so it makes me feel better. I'm not under any delusions I am saving any money or lengthening the lifetime of my car though.
#280
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Careful now! Though the 1MZ-FE (or any other stock moor) is hardly programmed to take advantage of 100+ octane, but hey good stuff if you can get it. Highly illegal in the states due to tax implications.
My dad was a chemist by degree and worked in that field when I was a young'n. They used to have drums of benzene hanging around his workplace, the guys would fill their tanks with it, he ran his '81 Civic on the stuff. He swore it ran great on the ~100 octane benzene. Burnt lots of valves though but I think many of those CVCC motors did that.
My dad was a chemist by degree and worked in that field when I was a young'n. They used to have drums of benzene hanging around his workplace, the guys would fill their tanks with it, he ran his '81 Civic on the stuff. He swore it ran great on the ~100 octane benzene. Burnt lots of valves though but I think many of those CVCC motors did that.
Legal here and I've been doing it for almost two years with no issues. BTW, my motor is the 3VZ-FE not the 1MZ-FE
#281
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I have an '03 ES 300 with 110,000 miles. With mostly city driving here's my average fuel economy:
Regular 87 ocatanel fuel leaving transmission in "D" 18.8 MPG
Mid grade 89 octane fuel leaving transmission in "D" 18.8 MPG
Premium 91 octane grade fuel leaving transmission in "D" 17.9 MPG
Regular 87 ocatanel fuel Shifting from D-4th, and sometimes 3rd: 16.1MPG
My driving impressions:
Shifting from "D" to 4th in city driving reduces the confusion of the ECT.
Mid grade and premium fuels, I noticed more partial throttle power. However, I didn't notice a difference between the two grades.
In closing, I mostly fill up with 87, occasionally using 89 when I feel "extravagant". Lol
Regular 87 ocatanel fuel leaving transmission in "D" 18.8 MPG
Mid grade 89 octane fuel leaving transmission in "D" 18.8 MPG
Premium 91 octane grade fuel leaving transmission in "D" 17.9 MPG
Regular 87 ocatanel fuel Shifting from D-4th, and sometimes 3rd: 16.1MPG
My driving impressions:
Shifting from "D" to 4th in city driving reduces the confusion of the ECT.
Mid grade and premium fuels, I noticed more partial throttle power. However, I didn't notice a difference between the two grades.
In closing, I mostly fill up with 87, occasionally using 89 when I feel "extravagant". Lol
#284
Run the higher Octane, the 1mz is known for its poor knock control especially in the earlier years. 87 might work for you, but trust me put the 91/93/94 in. You're engine will run a little better, you won't blow knock sensors down the road etc etc. I blame my blown motor on 87 because I redline daily but with 87 you could occasionally hear the spark knock.. What causes bent rods in N/A low powered motors? Detonation and I had all the bases covered except my family likes to put 87 octane in which you can feel the knock events surging power sluggish at WOT and chugging up hills... Run Premium it is a premium car with a high out put engine with high compression.
#285
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Before I get flamed for posting an already discussed topic on here I want to let you know I did about 2 hours of researching on CL and still cannot make a conclusion on what I was trying to figure out.
So, I proceed with my question: Background info - I recently bought a used, but excellent condition, 2002 ES300 with 73K miles which was driven very lightly by the 1st owner mostly for a work commute. It was driven by a woman in her 60's so I highly doubt it was driven hard and long on a daily basis. I was informed that only 87 (regular) octane gas was used as well as regular motor oil (non-synthetic). The driver's manual calls for the use of 91 octane and I have read on here that the use of lower octane, more specifically 87, would most likely cause some type of knock/pinging due to the faster burning lower octane gas which retards the engine response to the fuel quite a bit. This particular car doesn't seem to have any type of noticeable engine problems, pings, or knocks and drives very smoothly, however, I have only had the car for 3 days so far so who knows what I'll encounter *knock on wood*
My question is: Should I continue to use 87 octane gas or should I switch over to 91 octane gas for the first time in the car's life? I'd much rather put 87 to save a couple bucks at the pump and remain consistent with the previous owner. Any suggestions or experiences would be appreciated (Sorry if that was a long post )
So, I proceed with my question: Background info - I recently bought a used, but excellent condition, 2002 ES300 with 73K miles which was driven very lightly by the 1st owner mostly for a work commute. It was driven by a woman in her 60's so I highly doubt it was driven hard and long on a daily basis. I was informed that only 87 (regular) octane gas was used as well as regular motor oil (non-synthetic). The driver's manual calls for the use of 91 octane and I have read on here that the use of lower octane, more specifically 87, would most likely cause some type of knock/pinging due to the faster burning lower octane gas which retards the engine response to the fuel quite a bit. This particular car doesn't seem to have any type of noticeable engine problems, pings, or knocks and drives very smoothly, however, I have only had the car for 3 days so far so who knows what I'll encounter *knock on wood*
My question is: Should I continue to use 87 octane gas or should I switch over to 91 octane gas for the first time in the car's life? I'd much rather put 87 to save a couple bucks at the pump and remain consistent with the previous owner. Any suggestions or experiences would be appreciated (Sorry if that was a long post )