ES300 2003 warranty, sludge, timing belt.
10-31-11, 09:13 AM
#33
yeldogt, I was not planning on getting scheduled maintenance from the warranty. Maybe you missed it, my car is only 80k. I was never thinking anything about the timing belt until the agent specifically told me it was bad, cracks in it etc. THEN went on to say my warranty does not cover it. If he was talking plain maintenance he would have said do it soon or at 90k. But he was making a note to tell me it needed changing now and that it was NOT covered, which as you can imagine was very confusing to me. Since, plain as day it is listed as covered. That is my dilemma. I think he may have not done his homework on either my warranty situation or the maint. on my car for the timing belt. Either way, he was off about something. Will figure it out tom. Try to have him clarify to see what he was meaning or thinking.
If your warranty truly says it covers the timing belt and the agent said it had cracks and needed to be replaced, you have them over a barrel and I would immediately take it over his head to his manager and demand they replace the timing belt and send them a copy of the warranty.
Here's the thing, he's full of it, and I would be willing to bet they never so much as looked at your timing belt or any other belt. It's a standard sales pitch. But he outsmarted himself because he didn't know you had a warranty that covered it and now he's going to get reamed by his boss because Lexus is going to make the dealership explain why they're paying for a new timing belt.
I would take the list of things this genius said your car needed like the timing belt, cleaning the sludge, etc and make the dealership cover the repairs because all of that should be covered. You'll get a song and dance about how the guy made an "honest mistake" and that it's not really necessary.
And you'll be that much smarter about the high pressure sales tactics that dealers use to try and take advantage of you for thousands of dollars.
Sorry you have to go through this, after this episode I would start taking your car to a different dealer if you can, or at the very least change your service adviser. I'm not a big fan of "stealerships" in general though, this sort of thing is pretty normal, especially on higher end dealers that know their customers tend to have more disposable income.
10-31-11, 11:02 AM
#34
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Bradtank, wish I would have gotten this post last night, I might have been tougher today. Anyways, here is what happened:
My agent calls me this morning cheerfully, your car is all ready! I said, wait a minute. You said the belts, timing belt, buildup and the major stuff has been neglected for 7 years and the belts etc have cracks need to be changed. And that confused me because I bought this car 2 years ago shouldn't that have been done? He said, what? No no, I never said that, I just said these are things that need to be done at 90k maintenance. Basically fudged. And clearly he knew nothing specifically about my car. So I do think it was a standard line he was giving me, not specific to my car. But trust me, I know the difference between letting me know these things need to be done as maintenace for 90k, and, these are in bad shape and are dangerous you have "gotten away with" for 7 years etc. Could be very dangerous. I KNOW he said this. So i said, I will come and talk to you about it in person.
I get there and it is packed, Monday. My agent is too busy to see me. I get the invoice and they did the AC stuff. There was a list of recommendations. I asked to talk to him about it. They could not get a hold of him. So she said he could call me. In the meantime they bring my car around and I check the one item(gasoline door was not opening) and it was not fixed. So I see a guy and tell him, this is not fixed, as he went to get someone, another guy comes over and whispers... you want to talk to him, he's the service manager! Great! So I walk over and tell him. While I have him I tell him my experience and he says come with me. He sent my car back to fix the door while we were talking.
We sat down and he pulled up my car on his computer. He said everything looks fine, you are just ready for the normal 90k. He did not comment on what the agent said, and I did not push it. To be honest I was just grateful to get honest answers, it seemed. This guy seemed truly genuine and seemed to care. He said, even though it is over 7 years for timing belt, I should be fine to wait for the 90k. And he said if you do it while still under warranty we can probably take care of your water pump and anything else we find. He looked up my warranty and told me it ends on Feb. 27. He said, so I would just get all this stuff done in January and while we have it apart if we see anything you can still get it done under warranty. I felt he truly wanted to help me save some money. So here is the list of what they suggest...
Timing Belt 399
Transmission Service(fluid change) 129
Drive Belt 229
Coolant System Service 139
Induction Service 159
Oh and also listed, 90k service 469 ??? I wonder what that is?! Maybe filters etc.
Seems fine until you add it up! $1500
I can piece meal some of it. I want to keep my car doing well for awhile. So will do it
I think I will take his advice and do the timing belt with Lexus along with drive belt and coolant service. I think he said those were all tied when they take it apart anyway, maybe drive belt too.
Is there anything you think I can get done cheaper with my mechanic?
Overall I feel good. I think the agent was doing his sales pitch and yes, it did backfire. Not to any major detriment to them, or me.
Oh and the service manager looked up the old records and said the previous owner did all the services and seemed to take good care of it. So that was good too.
Now I can call him directly and make sure my car is taken care of properly and given attention. He truly seemed to want to help me get all I can from my warranty before it expired. He said he drives a 93 Lexus with 320k ! He said he does not remember seeing or hearing about any major sludge etc. They would have noted it. Again, just normal maintenance stuff. My car is fine until I am ready to do all this.
MDBrown. You were right at least about this dealership. To meet the service manager and talk with him. I do feel good about bringing my car there.
Now start putting away $$$$ to pay for it! Thanks for your help everyone! WDYT?
My agent calls me this morning cheerfully, your car is all ready! I said, wait a minute. You said the belts, timing belt, buildup and the major stuff has been neglected for 7 years and the belts etc have cracks need to be changed. And that confused me because I bought this car 2 years ago shouldn't that have been done? He said, what? No no, I never said that, I just said these are things that need to be done at 90k maintenance. Basically fudged. And clearly he knew nothing specifically about my car. So I do think it was a standard line he was giving me, not specific to my car. But trust me, I know the difference between letting me know these things need to be done as maintenace for 90k, and, these are in bad shape and are dangerous you have "gotten away with" for 7 years etc. Could be very dangerous. I KNOW he said this. So i said, I will come and talk to you about it in person.
I get there and it is packed, Monday. My agent is too busy to see me. I get the invoice and they did the AC stuff. There was a list of recommendations. I asked to talk to him about it. They could not get a hold of him. So she said he could call me. In the meantime they bring my car around and I check the one item(gasoline door was not opening) and it was not fixed. So I see a guy and tell him, this is not fixed, as he went to get someone, another guy comes over and whispers... you want to talk to him, he's the service manager! Great! So I walk over and tell him. While I have him I tell him my experience and he says come with me. He sent my car back to fix the door while we were talking.
We sat down and he pulled up my car on his computer. He said everything looks fine, you are just ready for the normal 90k. He did not comment on what the agent said, and I did not push it. To be honest I was just grateful to get honest answers, it seemed. This guy seemed truly genuine and seemed to care. He said, even though it is over 7 years for timing belt, I should be fine to wait for the 90k. And he said if you do it while still under warranty we can probably take care of your water pump and anything else we find. He looked up my warranty and told me it ends on Feb. 27. He said, so I would just get all this stuff done in January and while we have it apart if we see anything you can still get it done under warranty. I felt he truly wanted to help me save some money. So here is the list of what they suggest...
Timing Belt 399
Transmission Service(fluid change) 129
Drive Belt 229
Coolant System Service 139
Induction Service 159
Oh and also listed, 90k service 469 ??? I wonder what that is?! Maybe filters etc.
Seems fine until you add it up! $1500
I can piece meal some of it. I want to keep my car doing well for awhile. So will do it
I think I will take his advice and do the timing belt with Lexus along with drive belt and coolant service. I think he said those were all tied when they take it apart anyway, maybe drive belt too.
Is there anything you think I can get done cheaper with my mechanic?
Overall I feel good. I think the agent was doing his sales pitch and yes, it did backfire. Not to any major detriment to them, or me.
Oh and the service manager looked up the old records and said the previous owner did all the services and seemed to take good care of it. So that was good too.
Now I can call him directly and make sure my car is taken care of properly and given attention. He truly seemed to want to help me get all I can from my warranty before it expired. He said he drives a 93 Lexus with 320k ! He said he does not remember seeing or hearing about any major sludge etc. They would have noted it. Again, just normal maintenance stuff. My car is fine until I am ready to do all this.
MDBrown. You were right at least about this dealership. To meet the service manager and talk with him. I do feel good about bringing my car there.
Now start putting away $$$$ to pay for it! Thanks for your help everyone! WDYT?
10-31-11, 11:59 AM
#35
When you get the timing belt done have the drive belt replaced and do NOT pay any labor for it, it has to come off anyway. $399 for the timing belt is a good price. $129 for a transmission service is a bit much. If the $139 for the cooling system is a flush that's a good price, if it's just a drain and fill that's excessive. BTW, the 90k should include a cooling system drain and fill and the transmission drain and fill. Check the maintenance manual that came with the car, I am going on memory here but I'm almost certain both of those are listed for 90k.
Despite what some others have said, a fuel induction service is a good investment at 9 years/90k miles.
Despite what some others have said, a fuel induction service is a good investment at 9 years/90k miles.
10-31-11, 01:14 PM
#36
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Awesome, Mdbrown, thank you!!!!!! Feeling really good.
Can I get the transmission service anytime, separate from other things. Then will do it cheaper at my mechanic.
Will find out about the Cooling specifics when I take it in later. Thanks for that.
Will do the induction service. Can that be done separately too? Or better with timing belt?
Can I get the transmission service anytime, separate from other things. Then will do it cheaper at my mechanic.
Will find out about the Cooling specifics when I take it in later. Thanks for that.
Will do the induction service. Can that be done separately too? Or better with timing belt?
10-31-11, 02:03 PM
#37
Any of the services can be done separately, I had customers who either couldn't or wouldn't pony up for a 60k service and instead broke it up and did all the parts of it separately at different times. Just don't wait too long. Sounds like things worked out for the better. Despite what some others have said I don't think that forcing the dealer to do things like that is a good idea in the long run. You might get a service done cheap or free but you alienate the dealership. When that happens you lose them as an advocate for you. Many times we have gone to bat for a customer and had things done under warranty long after the warranty had expired. Do you think we would go out on a limb like that for someone that forced us to eat a repair? Keep in mind too that the job might be absorbed... or it might be recovered by raising prices for everyone.
Good luck with your car, sounds like you have things well in hand. Work with the dealership to build a partnership, not an adversarial and contentious relationship. Keep them honest by being educated and you will both profit by it.
Good luck with your car, sounds like you have things well in hand. Work with the dealership to build a partnership, not an adversarial and contentious relationship. Keep them honest by being educated and you will both profit by it.
10-31-11, 02:11 PM
#38
Blubird1,
Amazing how your car is no longer in serious need of these repairs once they found out you wouldn't be paying for it our of your own pocket! The part about your timing belt being cracked and about ready to destroy your engine was a nice touch. Some people might even call that fraud. And what happened to all the cracked hoses that were about ready to blow?
I would have the dealership do the work that is covered under the warranty (like the timing belt) before it expires and the rest of the stuff that you have to pay yourself at a good independent shop. Check out your Service Manual in the glovebox and see what it actually needs at 90k miles and just have those services performed, but most of the quoted work is pretty high and I would say a good independent shop can do all of those services for half of what the dealership is charging. You might even want to just go to a Toyota dealer instead of Lexus and get quotes for that work just to compare.
I'm glad you got some resolution on this, but it would leave a bad taste in my mouth that this particular dealership tried to swindle you and I know I would be taking my cash business elsewhere.
Amazing how your car is no longer in serious need of these repairs once they found out you wouldn't be paying for it our of your own pocket! The part about your timing belt being cracked and about ready to destroy your engine was a nice touch. Some people might even call that fraud. And what happened to all the cracked hoses that were about ready to blow?
I would have the dealership do the work that is covered under the warranty (like the timing belt) before it expires and the rest of the stuff that you have to pay yourself at a good independent shop. Check out your Service Manual in the glovebox and see what it actually needs at 90k miles and just have those services performed, but most of the quoted work is pretty high and I would say a good independent shop can do all of those services for half of what the dealership is charging. You might even want to just go to a Toyota dealer instead of Lexus and get quotes for that work just to compare.
I'm glad you got some resolution on this, but it would leave a bad taste in my mouth that this particular dealership tried to swindle you and I know I would be taking my cash business elsewhere.
10-31-11, 06:38 PM
#39
The dealers normally have a package price for the major service -- You must read the list carefully. Many of the items are "check" not "replace". My dealer does not include the spark pugs/ coolant or brake fluid flush in the package price .......all are extra. They do give you a new set of wiper inserts!
The dealers only replace the timing belt - they do not replace anything else like the tensioner for the package price.
Just so you know ............the drive belts -- often called fan belts -- have to be removed to do the timing belt. So they are always replaced at the same time. That is what people are talking about.
The transmission has a drain plug -- just like the engine. The dealers simple drain the four quarts of Toyota fluid that will come out of the plug -- install a new crush washer on the plug and add four quarts of Type IV fluid. I have my local mechanic perform the service when it is due at the same time I have the oil changed -- he charges me $15.00. I get the Toyota fluid ($20.00) and the crush washer (.50) and have it on hand. This is included in the package price
My 2000 ES was a CPO car --covered until 100k -- I had the major service completed at 93k. At that time I told them about a small noise coming from the rear of the car .... They replaced the rear struts ..... when I pointed out that I felt the car acted strangely on the highway with the new struts on the rear ...... They replaced the fronts!
The dealers only replace the timing belt - they do not replace anything else like the tensioner for the package price.
Just so you know ............the drive belts -- often called fan belts -- have to be removed to do the timing belt. So they are always replaced at the same time. That is what people are talking about.
The transmission has a drain plug -- just like the engine. The dealers simple drain the four quarts of Toyota fluid that will come out of the plug -- install a new crush washer on the plug and add four quarts of Type IV fluid. I have my local mechanic perform the service when it is due at the same time I have the oil changed -- he charges me $15.00. I get the Toyota fluid ($20.00) and the crush washer (.50) and have it on hand. This is included in the package price
My 2000 ES was a CPO car --covered until 100k -- I had the major service completed at 93k. At that time I told them about a small noise coming from the rear of the car .... They replaced the rear struts ..... when I pointed out that I felt the car acted strangely on the highway with the new struts on the rear ...... They replaced the fronts!
11-01-11, 01:00 PM
#40
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Wow... Thanks Mdbrown, Bradtank, Yeldogt! Made notes. And will do. Interesting about them giving you the front ones too! Amazing! Will be open to working with them and also have my mechanic do some save some dough.
11-03-11, 08:04 PM
#41
In turning this over in my mind after I posted the above there are some other things to consider. I don't know what transpired but, if you made mention of the hesitation and smoke he might very well be recommending the fuel induction service because of that. As for the drive (not timing) belt, what looked good at 55k miles may very well need changing at 80k miles as they are all likely OE. I don't know how they presented all this so it's hard to say whether any of it is legitimate or not. Recommending a timing belt 10k early certainly isn't a big deal IF he stated that it's due at 90k so you might want to do it while we have it here and apart for the A/C. Did he state the hoses were soft (or rock hard)? If either is the case then you need them. Again, have him show you everything that was recommended.
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