Bermster

So, about four or five days after getting it back from the dealer with a clean bill of health, it wouldn't start again. Took it to a different dealer and they were able to diagnose that there was indeed a parasitic draw coming from a switch on the door. Hopefully this will be the end of the problems.

PFB

Just curious. This problem should have been very easy to diagnose and resolve. Why did it get so complicated and expensive? Especially considering that supposedly qualified mechanics were involved.

Something is amiss here.

Phil

Bermster

Yeah, it had me quite baffled as well. All they seemed to want to do was replace failed batteries and alternators at absurdly short intervals and not admit that there was an underlying problem causing them to fail so quickly. The service advisor there even went so far as to tell me that the batteries had bad cells from the factory and there wasn't any way the car was killing them. He must think Lexus quality control is pretty damn bad if that's the rate at which defective batteries are encountered.

It seems that the service department at that Lexus dealership is incompetent or unethical, because they said they tested the car for a parasitic draw and found nothing, and now after taking the car to this other Lexus dealer they diagnose the draw right away. I just hope that after dealing with this problem's manifestations for over two years it is finally fixed.

donbryce

That switch wouldn't happen to be the gas door release button? On my '93 (which may not have the same switch), it has a habit of sticking slightly down when pushed to release the catch solenoid. I caught this one time when the catch/release on the gas door wasn't out far enough to engage the flap, still held in by the solenoid. Other times it can be out far enough to catch the flap and the armrest button still stuck down enough to drain the battery.

Bermster

No, it's the pin switch for the driver's side door. Is there a way that the switch could be sticking and drawing power without the dome light coming on, or the alarm sounding? I'm hoping so, because I have never noticed anything like that and am hoping that they aren't on another wild goose chase with this switch.

Bermster

So, got the car back from the dealer on Wednesday, after they replaced the driver's side door courtesy switch, and it worked fine until Friday afternoon, when it wouldn't start and just clicked. Starting to wonder if I should bail on this car. Is it possible that the problem is effectively undiagnosable?

donbryce

IMO, no, it's not "undiagnosable". You seem to have the same problems now that you had when you started this thread, a low battery charge that isn't enough to turn the starter motor, and a long string of hapless dealer mechanics that can't troubleshoot a straightforward, common electrical problem. At this stage, you should find a good shop that specializes in auto electrical and print out this entire thread for them to read. Surely there's one such place where you live....

mdbrown

It can be diagnosed. It's possible though that it's an intermittent condition and it will be exceedingly difficult to find. I had one once that would turn on a computer at random times, found it by accident... anything is possible.

BradTank

For whatever reason, the "professionals" that you're taking your car to are just shotgunning parts at it, and that gets expensive in a hurry. You should be getting a refund for EVERY single repair these clown did since none of them have actually fixed the problem you came in with.

A trained technician with the right tools can easily find this, (as listed earlier in the thread) usually they hook up a multimeter through the car battery and pull fuses until the meter shows a change, that's usually when you've found your draw and you can narrow it down from there. It actually pretty easy to do yourself

Here's a YouTube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCT-...eature=related

A pro should have even better tools to test circuits and find draws. I would seek out a shop that specialized in automotive wiring if you can't find it yourself. Sometimes these things can be hard to find (rarely), but that's certainly not an excuse for a shop to throw parts at a problem they can't figure out.

mdbrown

As I stated, it may not be easy to find. I had a vehicle that would energize the wireless control module at random times. I had to keep that one for 2 months and found it by accident. A parasitic draw test is not difficult but there are times that finding the parasitic draw is.

Don't be too hard on the technicians either, they aren't trained anymore to diagnose. I was a diagnostic only technician for several years simply because they are getting hard to find.

BradTank

I understand these problems aren't always easy to find, but don't you think the correct way for the technician to handle the problem would be to say:

"I'm sorry sir, we can't seem to diagnose your problem, I recommend you take it to a shop that can better address this problem" instead of just replacing random parts and batteries over and over, charging you, and saying they fixed the problem?

mdbrown

Would that be the best way to handle it? Certainly. Would that land you in hot water with your service manager possibly even getting you written up? In most cases... yes.

Like it or not, especially in this depressed market, dealership service departments and independent repair shops are very much run with a spreadsheet mentality... what can you make for me TODAY... screw tomorrow... we'll worry about tomorrow tomorrow. There are exceptions but they are just that... exceptions. I have been in this business for over 25 years and it started to get much better but in this recession it's slipping badly...

Coulter

I respectfully disagree, and if a mechanic is scared he's going to get in trouble for not knowing what's wrong with the car, imagine how much trouble he's going to get into when the shop has to eat the numerous repairs he "diagnosed" because it didn't fix the problem.

I had an issue once with an older car that had an early ECM that had some sort of intermittent sensor that was malfunctioning. I couldn't troubleshoot it, so I took it to a respected shop. They had it for the day, said they couldn't figure it out, and recommended a dealership. They also didn't charge me a penny. Guess who's going to be a repeat customer?

There's no excuse for what these shops did, and they should be eating every wrong repair they made.

mdbrown

I'm not a customer with a few good or bad experiences, I have been in this business for over 25 years now and in multiple states. I am glad you have a positive experience but it is NOT the rule. Most (not all but the overwhelming majority) operate differently. They'll get the money for the repair they make today and as many times as possible whether they get it right or not. Now they do try and do the repair and they do invest the time. If the waste matter hits the reciprocating air moving device they will negotiate with the customer and/or recoupe what they need to in the repair that fixes the issue. This is not anecdotal observations, this is multiple decades in this business.

It was getting better, much better until the economy tanked. Now it's beginning to backslide. I'm not agreeing with this philosophy at all, in fact it is why I am no longer in this industry, but it is fact. Without actually seeing his car and seeing what was done I have no idea. It is also possible (and I have seen it more than you think) that their were multiple reasons for his battery drain and they have fixed one but not both. To try and condemn (or support as it were) a repair shop when one only has on half of an unconfirmed story is pointless. I feel for him and probably he should return to whomever charged him the most and (if possible) leave the vehicle and check on it every few days until they locate the problem on the contention that he has paid all he is going to pay unless and until they can verify the actual cause.

Coulter

So now that the economy is tough, mechanics get to screw people and we shouldn't call them on it? Shouldn't he be upset with the repair shops that threw a bunch of worthless repairs and parta at his car that didn't work? We're not smearing a particular shop here, and I doubt the OP is lying about his experience. Again, if the shop made an honest mistake, they can show their honesty by giving a full refund for all the worthless repairs they made.

Not all car repairs get to be gravy jobs like brakes, sometimes you have difficult problems to solve. What I have an issue with is a shop saying they found the problem, and it's the battery/alternator/ switch etc. (fill in the blank) over and over without the actual problem being addressed. And no, I don't buy for a minute that these were all contributing factors. After the repairs were made, they could have easily tested the system and see if that stopped the draw of current or not. They were just being lazy and guessing.

That may be how some shops operated, but they're not going to do it on my dime, and I wouldn't pay for a single repair. If that means some shops go out of business, oh well, they deserve it. The honest shops I go to, it's hard to get an appointment they're so busy.

Not all mechanics are crooks, but my experience is many will try to take advantage of you if you don't know any better. The OP should cancel payment on his credit card (if he still can) and let them explain themselves. In the meantime he should ask around and find a shop that's actually going to diagnose the problem.