Worthy trade: 2001 ES300 for 2001 LS430???
09-28-09, 06:08 PM
#33
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I too am curious of the outcome...I read through quickly and did not see if you have navigation on your LS. I'm in the market for an ES and looked at the LS as well. In my several-week search, I've found your car is worth almost double (especially if it has nav) - roughly $8K versus $15K (at least here in SoCal).
I can't possibly see how this guy is asking for $1500 in addition to your car and can keep a straight face.
I've read your posts Muka and understand you don't want the hassle of servicing your LS, but you can't overlook the value discepancy here and yes it has 8,100 miles, but as stated here on the board, it has almost 9 years of weathering regardless of mileage. Make sure it was garaged during it's 9-yr life, otherwise those unused belts and hoses being outside might as well have 90K on them.
Good luck with your decision and please realize your pro-LS feedback has been a slam-dunk for a reason...
I can't possibly see how this guy is asking for $1500 in addition to your car and can keep a straight face.
I've read your posts Muka and understand you don't want the hassle of servicing your LS, but you can't overlook the value discepancy here and yes it has 8,100 miles, but as stated here on the board, it has almost 9 years of weathering regardless of mileage. Make sure it was garaged during it's 9-yr life, otherwise those unused belts and hoses being outside might as well have 90K on them.
Good luck with your decision and please realize your pro-LS feedback has been a slam-dunk for a reason...
09-29-09, 07:16 AM
#34
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Well, foremost, thank you all for your suggestion. Some piece of information:
1. My car 2001 LS430 does NOT have navigation.
2. I did check the edmunds and kbb but I always believed that they are always accurate except in cases where you have an old car that has driven less. To give an example, here is what is a REALITY in my case.
3. 2000 ES300 is worth around $8000 for about 7000 to 8000 miles which gives only $1000 credit. I was skeptical as my car was worth more but 8000 miles is almost a new car. It was driven around 400 - 600 miles every year as per carfax record.
4. Well, I did offer my Lexus LS430 with $1500 but he refused as he got another offer. Some one offered him $14,500 which he accepted.
Now, you would be thinking tha he would be lying except as I said, his neighbor is one of my best friends and he is his best friend as well. So he sold the car for $14,500.
I also talked to two mechanics after the fact and they told me that they themselves would have bought the car had I told them earlier. The reason being, if the car was driven 5000 miles in two years and then left standing, that would be different. However, the carfax showed mileage every 18 months or so due to state inspection that shows 400 - 600 miles added on every visit. So in both mechanics mind, that car was worth it.
Also, I got a chance to talk to some one who works on a car (for the love of it) and collects car (not old - just fancy and racing) on a dinner last night and he told me as well that it would have been a wise trade.
Said that, every one did agree that my Lexus will do well with $2500 to $3000 worth of repairs / maintenance which I was skeptical as that is a huge % chunck of the value of the car. But in any case, I got the tires replaced today so the repairs start!!!!
1. My car 2001 LS430 does NOT have navigation.
2. I did check the edmunds and kbb but I always believed that they are always accurate except in cases where you have an old car that has driven less. To give an example, here is what is a REALITY in my case.
3. 2000 ES300 is worth around $8000 for about 7000 to 8000 miles which gives only $1000 credit. I was skeptical as my car was worth more but 8000 miles is almost a new car. It was driven around 400 - 600 miles every year as per carfax record.
4. Well, I did offer my Lexus LS430 with $1500 but he refused as he got another offer. Some one offered him $14,500 which he accepted.
Now, you would be thinking tha he would be lying except as I said, his neighbor is one of my best friends and he is his best friend as well. So he sold the car for $14,500.
I also talked to two mechanics after the fact and they told me that they themselves would have bought the car had I told them earlier. The reason being, if the car was driven 5000 miles in two years and then left standing, that would be different. However, the carfax showed mileage every 18 months or so due to state inspection that shows 400 - 600 miles added on every visit. So in both mechanics mind, that car was worth it.
Also, I got a chance to talk to some one who works on a car (for the love of it) and collects car (not old - just fancy and racing) on a dinner last night and he told me as well that it would have been a wise trade.
Said that, every one did agree that my Lexus will do well with $2500 to $3000 worth of repairs / maintenance which I was skeptical as that is a huge % chunck of the value of the car. But in any case, I got the tires replaced today so the repairs start!!!!
09-30-09, 07:36 PM
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I think everything worked out Mukarram...you kept your car and he got a killer price ($14,500).
Good luck with your LS...it's still one of the nicest sedans on the planet and well worth keeping...
Good luck with your LS...it's still one of the nicest sedans on the planet and well worth keeping...
09-30-09, 09:18 PM
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I think you did well to wait and discuss the matter. As everyone here has said, about the worst thing you can do with a car is let it sit.
One thing nobody addressed that I saw was oil changes. The easiest, cheapest, most critical element of car maintenance. If that oil wasn't changed at minimum every 6 months (That means approx 18 oil changes in less than 9000 miles) then it's going to have problems. You think a timing belt is expensive... try valve cover gaskets, cam seals, rear main seal, etc. Not to mention that year range is when sludge was a huge issue for the toyota V6 motors. Wheel bearings not moving for more than a couple days, the temperature and humidity changes will let water pool in there. grease will break down faster, and ball bearings will begin to rust ... Don't even get me started on drive cycles too short to allow the engine to warm up to operating temperature. And what about proper engine break-in procedures?
I could go on ... but I don't know what mechanics you talked to, I wouldn't have given a penny over $4,000 for that car straight up. I love the old ES body style, soft suspension, quiet ride, etc., but a car like that is a money pit waiting to happen, no matter who made it.
Plus the LS is just a solid car. Those things go forever.
One thing nobody addressed that I saw was oil changes. The easiest, cheapest, most critical element of car maintenance. If that oil wasn't changed at minimum every 6 months (That means approx 18 oil changes in less than 9000 miles) then it's going to have problems. You think a timing belt is expensive... try valve cover gaskets, cam seals, rear main seal, etc. Not to mention that year range is when sludge was a huge issue for the toyota V6 motors. Wheel bearings not moving for more than a couple days, the temperature and humidity changes will let water pool in there. grease will break down faster, and ball bearings will begin to rust ... Don't even get me started on drive cycles too short to allow the engine to warm up to operating temperature. And what about proper engine break-in procedures?
I could go on ... but I don't know what mechanics you talked to, I wouldn't have given a penny over $4,000 for that car straight up. I love the old ES body style, soft suspension, quiet ride, etc., but a car like that is a money pit waiting to happen, no matter who made it.
Plus the LS is just a solid car. Those things go forever.
10-01-09, 06:21 PM
#38
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Hi
Thanks and I do agree with you. I did not give every single detail such that lady did drive 2 to 3 miles every Sunday to a service and nothing more
So it was driven regularly
It was serviced on schedule for oil changes and minor service except there was no "90k" service done and the tires were original. So had I gotten that car, I would still have to do 90k service on that as it was 10 years old and also the tires were 10 years old which better be changed.
I do love my LS
This weekend, it is going for timing belt, s-belt, water belt spark plugs replacement and will inspect cam seals, idle pulleys as well.
Thanks and I do agree with you. I did not give every single detail such that lady did drive 2 to 3 miles every Sunday to a service and nothing more
So it was driven regularly
It was serviced on schedule for oil changes and minor service except there was no "90k" service done and the tires were original. So had I gotten that car, I would still have to do 90k service on that as it was 10 years old and also the tires were 10 years old which better be changed.
I do love my LS
This weekend, it is going for timing belt, s-belt, water belt spark plugs replacement and will inspect cam seals, idle pulleys as well.
10-02-09, 01:13 PM
#40
I just sold my 2002 LS430 (105000 Ks) and ended up buying a low K. 2004 ES 330. Yes I gave up some space, power, toys, ride ect but I never warmed up to the colour (Gold). I'm still torn- Loved the package, but not the wrapping. Have a great looking, very low K ES now(29000 Ks), reg fuel, lower insurance for around the same price.
To each his own.
To each his own.
10-02-09, 01:27 PM
#41
I just sold my 2002 LS430 (105000 Ks) and ended up buying a low K. 2004 ES 330. Yes I gave up some space, power, toys, ride ect but I never warmed up to the colour (Gold). I'm still torn- Loved the package, but not the wrapping. Have a great looking, very low K ES now(29000 Ks), reg fuel, lower insurance for around the same price.
To each his own.
To each his own.
My LS430 with 128klm cost me more in the first 2 months in maintenance
than my 2000 ES300 cost me in 2 years of ownership (folding mirror and AFS sensor issue, about $1500).
My insurance went up with the LS430, from around $800 to $1300, plus, I had to buy 4 very high end snow tires for winter and rwd.
I'm curious, because I also test drove ES330's down at Ken Shaw Lexus ... how is the gas mileage on your ES around town and on the highway?
My 430 was about 9/100 L/klm hwy, and about 12/100 in town, with mostly
stop and go traffic.
Is your ES a premium, with the Mark Levinson pkg?
If so, how did it compare to the LS430?
I love the crystal clear highs on the Levinson, but bass is woefully
lacking on most cds.
The ride quality has to go to the LS ... definitely the smoothest car I've owned, even moreso than my 2000 LS400 or ES300.
10-02-09, 01:57 PM
#42
Your 100% right- My LS had the best ride out there, having said that my new ES is pretty nice- I've only had the car a week and my drive is about 25 min. each way (highway) computer says average is 8.9/100, I got 9.6 in the 430. My insurance is 900, was 1450 with the LS(crazy) Yes mine has the ML stereo, Navigation- It was Lexus certified so I have powertrain warranty till June 2012 and roadside. Bought it at Lexus Richmond Hill. Had an issue with my salesman but ironed it out with the Manager. Still don't know if I'd continue my relationship with them - great car but left a bitter taste in my mouth- I here Ken Shaw is good. Anyway- love the stereo- but wish it had XM- getting that installed soon. Would I buy another 430 - Absolutely but to get one in as good a shape as my 330 I would prob. have to pay another 15 K or so.
10-02-09, 04:21 PM
#43
I feel the same way about my LS ... love the car, but wish I could've afforded
one with about 60k rather than 125klm.
Next time around, I'll wait for the right colour and condition ... I enjoy my blue onxy pearl when its clean and buffed of any swirls ... and that lasts
all of about 10 minutes
Of course, the blue looks far better than the green ... this one was definitely
not my favourite colour.
one with about 60k rather than 125klm.
Next time around, I'll wait for the right colour and condition ... I enjoy my blue onxy pearl when its clean and buffed of any swirls ... and that lasts
all of about 10 minutes
Of course, the blue looks far better than the green ... this one was definitely
not my favourite colour.
Last edited by tcbted; 10-03-09 at 07:50 AM.
10-02-09, 10:27 PM
#44
man, 14.5K...? the seller made out like a BANDIT especially in this economy where 15K gets you lots of rather good '08-09 cars. i just passed on clean 90kmiles garaged '02 LS430 for 11K. lots of great deals out there.
10-03-09, 07:48 AM
#45
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Agree that 14.5K is high, but from experience I know sellers nearly always exaggerate selling price to an interested 'losing' buyer, just as the buyer often understates purchase price. KBBs mileage formula is meaningless for a car with mileage so far out of the average range. (use the formula on an '02 with 220K, for example, and see what $ you get). I've never paid even close to KBB, -ever- anyway, formulas or no. Price depends on a combination of the seller's motivation, buyer's patience, time of year, weather that week, etc. In a private sale, showing up w an envelope of cash can be a MOST persuasive negotiating tool.
Also, in my opinion, the LS 430, while one hell of a car, is a bit of a bastard, style wise. Comfortable, dependable, predictably luxurious. A bit plain on the outside, kind of like a 4 series Benz w the badging scrubbed off- a long transition from the 400 to the 460.
Go ahead, slam me for my opinions. I'm expecting it.
PS: I currently drive a 96ES with 107K.; half its life spent in CA, half in Bklyn. All stock, reliable, quick enough for any situation, quiet and comfortable enough to go cross country, 26mpg. And the poor cupholder design keeps the Dunkin Donuts expenses to a minimum.
Also, in my opinion, the LS 430, while one hell of a car, is a bit of a bastard, style wise. Comfortable, dependable, predictably luxurious. A bit plain on the outside, kind of like a 4 series Benz w the badging scrubbed off- a long transition from the 400 to the 460.
Go ahead, slam me for my opinions. I'm expecting it.
PS: I currently drive a 96ES with 107K.; half its life spent in CA, half in Bklyn. All stock, reliable, quick enough for any situation, quiet and comfortable enough to go cross country, 26mpg. And the poor cupholder design keeps the Dunkin Donuts expenses to a minimum.
