MCV20

i knw they are similiar but what is the diff...??
i knw they have diff computer(ECU).. which can adjust their timing if we put in diff octane of gas.....
such as ... 87... less HP...
91 more HP.....
also would the ECU really "LEARN" ???
is that ture...?
if this ture... i will really simply gain some HP from "octaneBoost" .rite......?

EGainer

Is this true about higher octane? Will it really get us more horsepower. Today I had some smoke pouring out of my wheel wells as I peeled out of a friend's court. Looks awesome as hell. I wish I could have had it on video. One thing that I don't like is that some people say my car is just a Camry underneathe. I know it is not at all, actually, the inside of my old 93 ES looked like the inside of my grandparents 96 Avalon. I know that it wasn't until later that the ES really started to break away from the camry platform, but my car is not a camry.

Lexpusher96

Forgive me, guys, but it's just a Camry. The ES sucks. What's really bad is that they are so similar, yet you can buy the Camry for about $10,000 cheaper than the ES. It just sounds better when someone asks you "what you drive?". You'd rather say "I own a Lexus" than "I own a Camry". Don't get me wrong, I like my ES ok, but it's not that great of a car. I consider it to be a "starter" Lexus. You have to own a SC430, a LS430, or atleast a GS to appreciate what Lexus is all about, and to be up there with the big boys. But an ES is just what is says, Economy Sedan. It's just a Camry with a Fancy name. IMO, of course.

kreativ

I'm assuming you're referring to the previous generations of the ES. What are you doing with that ES then?

As for the '02...it's quieter (thanks to sound absorbing material), the leather quality is superior (in line with the LS430), most all internal materials are superior, the audio system (in both standard and upgraded) is superior, and there are numerous performance and luxury features on the ES (both standard and optional) that aren't found on the Camry line.

I haven't sat in any of the previous generation ES to make an accurate comparison with the Camry. But actually sitting in and test driving the '02 Camry and '02 ES, the difference is very obvious.

EGainer

I know that the ES is not the high end lexus, my dad has had a 95', 99', and now a 2002 LS. He also had a 98 LX470, I know what lexus is about. Now there's an IS in the garage too. They are sweet cars. When I sit in one of my friends camrys compared to my ES, there is a difference. My car rides smoother first, a lot of people have noticed. It is very quiet, and has many luxury functions such as the automatic seats and climate control. All of these luxuries help set it apart from the camry from the same year. Now, the new ES is not a camry at all. It is now considered a midsize luxury sedan, with its loaded options, it's very different.

Lexpusher96

Yes, I was referring to the previous ES models. The latest model ES I've driven was the 2000 model. It did, I will admit, have a much nicer leather package than my '96. As for the 2002 models, I haven't even looked at them because they look so funny to me. I do think that the ES and Camry look too much alike again.

Like I said before...I like my ES ok, but it's not that great of a car. I thought it was fine when I bought it, but afterwards I started realizing how much it was like a Toyota Camry basically. It might be different if it said "Lexus"on all the doors and windows, etc. instead of Toyota. I know that Lexus (Toyota) builds fine cars, but the ES is the bottom line and is not a the best example of Lexus' quality automobiles. Sorry guys, I came to this forum to learn more about the cars we own, and share knowledge I have about them. Not to praise the best cars on earth (in some's opinions).

L_Sport

I agree with lex pusher are ES is a spiffed up Camry but who said the Camry was bad to begin with? When I started shopping for a car at 16 I was in the market for a 94 Camry but when I saw I could get a 92 ES for the same price I got the 92 so I knew what I was getting into buying the car and I was ok knowing that it was just a higher model Camry. I love my car I have had it since late 96 and I have tons of memories with the car and will always love it. And hey modifying it is just another challenge of life but its possible.

kreativ

LexPusher,
Sorry to hear you have some regert purchasing your ES over a Camry. I still think the pre-'02 ES is a fine car with higher interior build quality, at a price premium of a few $K. A $10K difference was pushing it, unless you were comparing a nicely-equipped ES to a lower-model Camry.

I could go on for quite a while on what differentiates the two now. If you can get past your dislike for the exterior design for merely a test drive, give the '02 ES a run. It's more of a "baby LS' in feel than a souped up Camry.

As it has for me and many others, I think it will change your attitude about the ES being just for those who want a Camry and a luxury nameplate at the same time.

==================================

Back to the original topic, I'm also curious what kind of effect there would be by using premium in a Camry V6 and regular in an ES V6. More specifically, how much of the 16HP difference between these two engine variants will result. They're the same engine, and I know of many ES owners that use regular gasoline. I'm assuming there's some mechanical tuning of the engine for it to realize the benefits of higher octane gasoline. And the ECU probably just helps prevent different grade gasolines from hurting the engine.

mcelligott

Some people do this at the track, but i'm not sure if it's something that makes any noticable hp gains. Disconnect your battery for about 1/2 hour. "Supposedly" your ECU will restart back to its original settings and possibly free up some horsepower. Might just be an old wive's tale type of thing but it's something to consider...

Kyle Harty

iTrader: (17)

Honestly, the engine and chassis may be the same, and they may be basically the same platform; but IMO there is a seperation between the two, even in the first generation. First, I think the ES looks much better than the Camry, the Camry looks like a basic family car while the ES has a little more of an aggressive styling. It doesn't look like a sports car, (it shouldn't) but it's got more style than the Camry. I've sat in a '94 or '95 Camry and the interior of my '92 ES feels alot nicer, the interior just seems nicer.

Also, IMO, on the used market, the ES compares favorably to many of the other options such as the Accord, Maxima, and others. I'd considered a 94 or 95 Accord, my parent's have one, it's a nice car but IMO my '92 ES looks better, is much smoother and quieter, and the interior of the Accord feels cheap compared to the Lexus. Maybe it's a little different when I was comparing used cars in the same price range, the Lex was more expensive when new, but I haven't regretted that decision.

The ES isn't the greatest car in the world (I'd personally love a GS430) but IMO it does it's job quite well, and is more than just an economy sedan. I haven't driven an LS, but Consumer Reports said back in '94 that the ES felt much like the LS but with a little sportier feel, I don't know how true that statement is, but they usually have a pretty good idea what they're talking about.

Also, this seems stupid, but as a 20 year old guy, I'd much rather say I drive a Lexus than a Camry.

I know people over in the GS forum have successfully gained a little temporary boost by resetting the ECU, but I don't know if it'd work with our cars.

EGainer

The new ES is supposed to be like a baby LS. My Dad agrees, the dealer gave him a new ES as a loaner car while his was being worked on. I love driving his LS430, it's so big, yet it handles so well. It drives with some sporty feel to it. The ride is so smooth, and sometimes I can't tell if the engine is on or not. And if you ever get the rpms high up on one of those, you will love the sound of the engine. That is a great flagship car, and is very easily comparable to a 7 series and an S class.

When I first got my car, the ES was not what I wanted. Originally, I wanted a BMW 3.25. The insurance for me was too high, so I dropped the sprot part and found a LExus. Their reliability is great and the car is a great car. Believe me, I know it is not the best car in the world. but it is a great car. And now the ES is definitly losing the camry image. I hear people say that they can't tell the difference between the new camry and the new ES. I can't help but wonder if they have even seen the two. The new camry's headlights do not swoop up onto the hood of the car, they are more like upturned aggressive eyes. The tail lights remind me of an 99-00 Nissan Altima shaping to them. the Es has much better design and flowing lines. The ES is now a luxury automobile, and that is what LExus wants it to be. With the IS out, they say they can make the ES the luxury car that it should be.

One of the best things to do is to not tell anyone that you drive a Lexus, It's much better when they find out themselves. You don't ever say... "I drive a Lexus" as a way to flaunt your car. You need to let them see it, or ask you about it. When someone asks you what kind of car you drive, tell them it's a gold sedan, or whatever color you have.

Kyle Harty

iTrader: (17)

I actually try to kinda downplay it when people ask, I'm not trying to flaunt it and I don't want it to sound like that, but when it comes down to it I'd rather be in the Lexus than a Camry.

MCV20

but knw find out that.. they have diff... supension set up..?
is it ture...
since..H&R... have diff stock number for the spring on Cam and ES... so i assume they have diff set up...

flipside909

The OEM Factory suspension on ES300 is tuned softer than it's Camry counterpart. The different stock numbers account for the different spring rates for the Camry and ES300 since the ES300 is heavier than the Camry by a few lbs.

For all this debate about Lexus/Toyota or whatever...it's all preference. I am a Toyota die hard and a Lexus and Toyota is just a name badge to me. I love both. The LS430 is really a Toyota Celsior....it originally was called a Toyota Celsior made by and for Toyota. It's just a nameplate anyways. If you really love your car, it shouldn't matter what your car is compared to or what label is on the trunk deck or front grille. I'm proud to be a Toyota owner and even if I did own a Lexus...I would be proud of it wether it was orignally named a Toyota Windom, Aristo, Soarer, Altezza, Celsior, Harrier or what have you. Like it or not, the chassis is based off of the Camry. Camry and ES300, same guts, but two different personalities. You buy what's best for you, don't let others tell you what your car is or isn't. It's YOUR car, your money and your choice. Who cares what they think.

To answer the octane question, all the 1MZ-FE from 94 to 2002 for the Camry and Solara models can run on 87 octane fuel...but 91 or greater is recommended for better performance. From 94-98, the ES300 used the same exact 1MZ-FE...but it 99 and newer, VVT-i was implemented on certain Toyota and Lexus models. The VVT-i 1MZ-FE is found in the 01 and current Sienna, RX300 of all years, Highlander V6 models 01-current, ES300 99 and current, and also the 00 and current Avalon. The 1MZ-FE is a high compression engine of 10:5:1. That's pretty high compared to all of it's competitors of their respective platforms. Keep in mind that high compression motors benefit from higher octane fuels. The small minute differences in HP figures for the Camry and ES300 in particularly the 97-98 ES300 vs the 97-01 Camry, or the 99-02 Solara is the exhaust, and timing differences. The programming is pretty much identical despite the fact of the small numbers. VVT-i was added to the 99 ES300 earlier to differentiate itself from the Camry. All the small number differences and implementation of different engine HP, options and etc are merely marketing tactics to set identities for each of the platforms. So in essence, the chassis is still a Camry chassis, but Toyota meant to make the two cars on purpose to fit two different target markets. It's all marketing anyway you say or look at it. Also for those vehciles which were sold in CA or require CA emissions, their HP and torque output only dropped by a mere 2 hp. That's all adjusted numbers through the ECU programming. To answer the original question, can you use 87 octane in your ES300, yes you can. In the Toyota manuals...it clearly states you can use 87 octane, but 91 or greater is recommended for better performance. I'm not totally sure with the Lexus manuals...but it will most likely tell you to use premium anyways...but lower octanes can be used when premium is readily not available. The knock sensors in the 1MZ-FE V6 detect knock and increase or retard timing as needed. So if you use regular unleaded, the ECU will differentiate between the octanes...and adjust timing accordingly. All the HP stats are probably obtained using premium octane fuels.

Here are the HP figures for most of the years of Camry and ES:

Years - V6 Engine - Camry/Solara/Avalon/ES300 HP #'s

90-91 - 2VZ-FE 2.5 - 153*/na/na/153*
92-93 - 3VZ-FE 3.0 - 185/na/na/185
94-96 - 1MZ-FE 3.0 - 188/na/**/188

97-98 - 1MZ-FE 3.0 - 194/na/200/200
99-01 - 1MZ-FE 3.0 - 194/200/210***+/210+
02-04 - 1MZ-FE 3.0 - 192/200/210+/210+

Footnotes:
*=2VZ-FE HP figures might be off by a few.
**=192 HP
*** = VVT-i implemented in redesigned 00 Avalon
+=w/VVT-i

MCV20

thanks for your detail explaination...