sp33d

Ok, So my lady's car was having an Idle surge problem. It runs great as long as your driving as soon as you get near idle RPM it would surge. from like 250 rpm's to 1200 rmp. BTW its a 1997 ES300

So I took out the air box, cleaned the TB, and all that stuff, still was doing it. So I pulled the fuel pump, changed the filters, still doing it. But now it wont turn over, just starter click, rediculously fast.

So I figured, hmm bad luck battery took a **** at the same time. Had an extra battery put it in, same thing. I jump it with my car. Still idle surging but its running, I go drive it around for 10-15 mins get home, shut it off. Turn it back on same thing, wont turn over.

Only this time, i noticed when i turned the key, the speedometer started going up to 40mph... W... T... F... Didnt start, same really fast clicking and no starter engage. when Im talking fast I mean like 6 times a second, and all dash lights turn on and off to the click just as fast.

So what am I looking at? BAD ECM? Now I have to wake up early to take her to work not happy... Please help

llcoolpass

Please answer these 3 questions I have:

is there anything you left out? what do you suspect happened and why? codes present?

I will tell you what I think it is, but I want you to post first

sp33d

I'm not exactly sure, it was running fine until 2 days ago. Shes got 175k miles.

Nothing that I left out, I checked every vacuum hose I could, all the electrical connections, MAF sensor, cleaned the AIC (air idle control), the TB and all that stuff. I changed the Fuel pump filter and fuel filter.

Im pretty sure I double checked every thing. It would be somthing stupid, knowing me.

Oh and another thing, I cant get CEL to come back on...

llcoolpass

intake tubing is loose or damaged

the crank sensors are not working right or similarly the timing belt is damaged and/or skipped teeth

bad ground

need more info for the many other possible but decreasingly likely things, the list ending with ECU failure

llcoolpass

are there any stored trouble codes?

sp33d

No stored, well thats what the idiot at Orielys said.

I pulled the intake tubing off every bit of it looked fine.

Bad ground does make sense, and was also worried about the timing belt.

But, the speedometer rising when starting doesnt make any bit of sense... all the other gauges remain nutual. I dont have a timing light any more, I think one of my a-hole friends "borrowed" it.

Please excuse my miss spellings and bad grammer, Im on 5 hours of sleep and 13 hours working on a damn car

llcoolpass

the speedometer is electrically driven and based on the VSS in the trans

all of which need to be grounded properly

is there anyway you removed a ground cable and didn't replace it -- like when working on the car recently [before the problems began]?

was the engine cranking strongly before this happened? did you crank the engine to the point you may have abused the starter or killed it? or no? is the engine cranking on a strong battery or is the car just making a clicking noise with the strong battery?

what condition is the battery you're now using?
if/when you get it running again [with a jump] you can test for alternator output too

is the coolant full and is it in good shape [from the filler neck]?

sp33d

Battery is brand new put it on the charger, charged it a bit and tested it. It was even clicking with my 4runner jumping it at 3k rpm, but it eventually started.

Havent done any recent work to it, I fixed an oil leak on it about 6-7 months ago that was coming out of the oil sending unit, that is kinda under the alternator, but didnt remove anything.

Yeah the engine was starting all day until I changed the Fuel filters, but I cant see that being related.

I added about a half a quart of coolant today, after the the thermostat opened up.

llcoolpass

so you drove it today [yesterday] and it was warming up and when it was running you added some coolant, half a quart and the coolant looked clean

you should test the starter subsystem now ... starter, solenoid etc

but I'm not really sure I understand [no "Earthly" understanding anyway...] why your car will not start with a fullly functioning battery but will start with a jump .... usually that means the battery has issues that are complicated that , to be concise, make it act weird and register as being full in voltage but unable to output proper amperage ---- and sometimes, instead, this is caused by a lot of corrosion and deteriorated cable ends that go on the battery

must ZZZ will check back tomorrow morning

sp33d

Yeah, I know. I'll take it some place and have them check the electrical system tomorrow. 2 batterys did the same thing, it makes no sense to me what so ever. I appriciate all your help.

Gonna look at the ground tomorrow make sure its healthy, amoung 20 other things. Ill let you know what I figure out.

Thanks again, Ill be checking back tomorrow while Im slaving away at work.

BTW nice car, had a chance to buy a 5spd ES but turned it down cuz the guy that owned it was a idiot.

llcoolpass

ok keep us abreast

sp33d

Ok, finally got time to get the CEL checked, here's what it said. Basically not a lot of help but getting there.

Throttle position malfuntion - Checked it with an OHM meter says its good. hrrrmmm?
EGR Excesive flow
Bank 1 oxygen sensor heater malfuntion (I've known this is bad, but havent cared. its just the enviroment)

So I've taken every bit of vacuum tubing off, checked it all good.
fuel pressure is good.

Side note, lol I had 2 bad batterys... what are the chances.

llcoolpass

wait if my line of thinking of bad connection at the battery or the battery was bad is correct, then how come you have codes?

im getting confused really fast. can you provide simpler answers. obviously, you're going to have to follow diagnostic procedures. they are given in manuals. i can only do so much online. try simple questions.

i have some simple questions:

did you reset the ECU and then test drive?
does it start normally now that you have a good battery in it?
did you test the alternator output with the good battery in it?
do you know what an oxygen sensor does?
do you know what oxygen sensor is bad, upstream versus downstream?
did the CEL light up since we last heard from you?
did DTC come about recently or was the oreilly's person completely wrong?

GEORGE_JET

In reference to the comment about the oxygen sensor!!! Obviously oblivious to any enviromental sensitivity ( it is just the air we breath ). But beyond that, THE ECM USES THIS TO CONTROL THE MIXTURE!!!! This is one of the most important sensors, far more important than you realize.

So you have been aware of the O2 sensor for awhile, any other Insignificant details???

Also the TPS sensor, you really need to look at that much more closely, that would explain the issues with surging.

I do not understand, you indicate that you have a ohm meter, but you have not mentioned what voltage the alternator is putting out. This is a basic test, should have been done before throwing another battery at it.

mmatheny

I would change the battery terminals anyway.