2015 ES 300H - Problems!
02-09-17, 12:38 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
2015 ES 300H - Problems!
Hey all - first post here, but hoping I could get some direction / advice on my problems.
I purchased a certified 2015 ES 300H in July last year (2016). It had super low miles on it - right at 15k. When I had it for a day, I started to notice several issues. First, the sunroof made a very loud squeak when closing. I called the salesperson I purchased the car from and he said that all Lexus vehicles do that - it's a feature that the sunroof is "sealing." I was obviously not going to fall for that and scheduled it for service. The notes on my service record shows that they "conditioned the weather molding."
Fast forward to today, and I have now had the car in the shop 4 times for the sunroof squeaking, rattling, and making popping noises. The last 2 times, the notes show that they added felt to the wind deflector, between the headliner and frame, and on the last visit, on the "sunroof bar" where the glass closes. After the last addition of felt, I've noticed a significant "thump" when opening the sunroof - I'm guessing it's from the extra work it's doing with the added felt.
Now - I started having problems with the infotainment system. The selector would not let me click on any items for at least 10 minutes after starting the car. I brought it in to the dealership and they said they fixed it with a software update. As I drove the car off the lot, I notice that they did not fix the issue. I turned around to go back and let them know they obviously didn't check what they said they fixed. They brought the shop foreman out, who was completely confused and said it must be the actual button that needed replaced... Fast forward a week and I call the dealership and they said it wasn't the button, but narrowed it down to the actual head unit and radio that needed to be replaced, which would be around a week before I could hopefully get my car back.
So - I've been in a loaner car every time I have had my car looked at, so that part is pretty nice. The part that isn't nice is all the time I'm wasting with missing work to take my car to the dealer/pick it up, etc. Also - it seems that adding felt to fix a rattle is only a band aid and not an actual fix to a problem. I purchased a Lexus thinking I was going to have a car without any problems - instead, it's already spent more time in the shop over the last 6 months than my BMW did over the 4 years prior! Besides the sunroof and now infotainment system, It's also been in the shop for buttons not working, mold smell in the air vents, and cup holders broken.
My question is this - what recourse, if any, do I have? Is this something that should be considered eligible for buyback? Looking forward to your thoughts!
I purchased a certified 2015 ES 300H in July last year (2016). It had super low miles on it - right at 15k. When I had it for a day, I started to notice several issues. First, the sunroof made a very loud squeak when closing. I called the salesperson I purchased the car from and he said that all Lexus vehicles do that - it's a feature that the sunroof is "sealing." I was obviously not going to fall for that and scheduled it for service. The notes on my service record shows that they "conditioned the weather molding."
Fast forward to today, and I have now had the car in the shop 4 times for the sunroof squeaking, rattling, and making popping noises. The last 2 times, the notes show that they added felt to the wind deflector, between the headliner and frame, and on the last visit, on the "sunroof bar" where the glass closes. After the last addition of felt, I've noticed a significant "thump" when opening the sunroof - I'm guessing it's from the extra work it's doing with the added felt.
Now - I started having problems with the infotainment system. The selector would not let me click on any items for at least 10 minutes after starting the car. I brought it in to the dealership and they said they fixed it with a software update. As I drove the car off the lot, I notice that they did not fix the issue. I turned around to go back and let them know they obviously didn't check what they said they fixed. They brought the shop foreman out, who was completely confused and said it must be the actual button that needed replaced... Fast forward a week and I call the dealership and they said it wasn't the button, but narrowed it down to the actual head unit and radio that needed to be replaced, which would be around a week before I could hopefully get my car back.
So - I've been in a loaner car every time I have had my car looked at, so that part is pretty nice. The part that isn't nice is all the time I'm wasting with missing work to take my car to the dealer/pick it up, etc. Also - it seems that adding felt to fix a rattle is only a band aid and not an actual fix to a problem. I purchased a Lexus thinking I was going to have a car without any problems - instead, it's already spent more time in the shop over the last 6 months than my BMW did over the 4 years prior! Besides the sunroof and now infotainment system, It's also been in the shop for buttons not working, mold smell in the air vents, and cup holders broken.
My question is this - what recourse, if any, do I have? Is this something that should be considered eligible for buyback? Looking forward to your thoughts!
02-09-17, 02:50 PM
#2
Your recourse would be to pursue a buy-back from Lexus. Sounds like it meets the definition of a lemon based on what you reported. CA has very good buyback laws and there are TONS of lemon-law attorneys here. Make sure you keep documentation of all the work orders and any other record of the problems.
02-09-17, 03:46 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
I did a buy back with GM without an attorney,.
here is some basic info on CA law.
first the car has to still be under the 3/36 warranty AND you have to be the first or second owner, 3rd owner on up can't apply for CA Lemon Law.
----
obviously you are going to want to speak to an attorney first, but based on what you have stated I don't think you would qualify, your repairs do not constitute a failure in use, value, or safety of the vehicles, nor have they exceeded the "reasonable attempt" criteria.
----
In my case with GM, they had my vehicle 4 times, for a total of 9 months, the first time it was 3 months to get the repair done and it failed within hours of the pick up of the vehicle. They repaired it 3 more times over the course of 3 years, after the second attempt I moved forward with the arbitration after speaking with an attorney, but I opted to go it alone because my case was very strong, it took 14 months during which time the vehicle was repaired 2 more times, to get to arbitration with GM.
I started with dealing with the Service and General Managers, moved on to dealing with the GM regional Rep, and then up to GM Customer Service and then on to GM's buy back division, in the end GM agreed on a complete buy back under CA law which basically says they have to make me whole again as if I never owned the vehicle, so I was refunded MSRP, all Dealer add on fees and charges, all interest on the loan, all maintenance I could provide receipts for, all state vehicle registration fees, etc.
here is some basic info on CA law.
first the car has to still be under the 3/36 warranty AND you have to be the first or second owner, 3rd owner on up can't apply for CA Lemon Law.
- In California, the lemon law covers vehicles only if they are sold with an express warranty. An “express warranty” for purposes of the California lemon law means an agreement by the seller or manufacturer to “preserve or maintain the utility or performance of the consumer good or provide compensation if there is a failure in utility or performance” – in other words, a warranty is any guarantee by the seller or maker of the goods that they will work properly. [Please take note that “service contracts” and “extended warranties” in which a third party ([i]i.e., someone other than the manufacturer or seller) agrees to repair any malfunctions or defects do not count as warranties for the purposes of the lemon law in California.
- For new and used cars that are sold with an express warranty, the manufacturer must repair any malfunctions that “substantially impair the use, value, or safety” of the car or truck within a “reasonable number of attempts.”
- No matter how many repair attempts have been made, the California lemon law requires that any single repair attempt take no more than 30 days. The only exceptions to the lemon law’s 30-day requirement are (1) if the consumer agrees in writing that the repair can take longer, or (2) when the delays are the result of conditions or circumstances that are beyond the control of the manufacturer.
- In cases in which the manufacturer cannot repair a substantial malfunction within a “reasonable number of repair attempts” the manufacturer is obligated to promptly either repurchase or replace the car or truck with a new one (i.e., the manufacturer must offer a lemon law buyback).
----
obviously you are going to want to speak to an attorney first, but based on what you have stated I don't think you would qualify, your repairs do not constitute a failure in use, value, or safety of the vehicles, nor have they exceeded the "reasonable attempt" criteria.
----
In my case with GM, they had my vehicle 4 times, for a total of 9 months, the first time it was 3 months to get the repair done and it failed within hours of the pick up of the vehicle. They repaired it 3 more times over the course of 3 years, after the second attempt I moved forward with the arbitration after speaking with an attorney, but I opted to go it alone because my case was very strong, it took 14 months during which time the vehicle was repaired 2 more times, to get to arbitration with GM.
I started with dealing with the Service and General Managers, moved on to dealing with the GM regional Rep, and then up to GM Customer Service and then on to GM's buy back division, in the end GM agreed on a complete buy back under CA law which basically says they have to make me whole again as if I never owned the vehicle, so I was refunded MSRP, all Dealer add on fees and charges, all interest on the loan, all maintenance I could provide receipts for, all state vehicle registration fees, etc.
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briguy73 (02-09-17)
02-09-17, 03:50 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
on a side note, my RC-F sun roof makes some popping and squeaking noises in the cold, as have all of my previous vehicles with sunroofs from several manufacturers. It's the nature of them.. My wife's brand new 2 month old Camry Hybrid does as well.
once the weather warms up, the noises go away...
once the weather warms up, the noises go away...
02-09-17, 03:51 PM
#6
You should ALWAYS use an attorney for a lemon law case. Under the lemon law, your attorney fees are paid by the other party per statute. You pay nothing and no one takes a cut of your settlement!
02-09-17, 03:52 PM
#7
I did a buy back with GM without an attorney,.
here is some basic info on CA law.
first the car has to still be under the 3/36 warranty AND you have to be the first or second owner, 3rd owner on up can't apply for CA Lemon Law.
----
obviously you are going to want to speak to an attorney first, but based on what you have stated I don't think you would qualify, your repairs do not constitute a failure in use, value, or safety of the vehicles, nor have they exceeded the "reasonable attempt" criteria.
----
In my case with GM, they had my vehicle 4 times, for a total of 9 months, the first time it was 3 months to get the repair done and it failed within hours of the pick up of the vehicle. They repaired it 3 more times over the course of 3 years, after the second attempt I moved forward with the arbitration after speaking with an attorney, but I opted to go it alone because my case was very strong, it took 14 months during which time the vehicle was repaired 2 more times, to get to arbitration with GM.
I started with dealing with the Service and General Managers, moved on to dealing with the GM regional Rep, and then up to GM Customer Service and then on to GM's buy back division, in the end GM agreed on a complete buy back under CA law which basically says they have to make me whole again as if I never owned the vehicle, so I was refunded MSRP, all Dealer add on fees and charges, all interest on the loan, all maintenance I could provide receipts for, all state vehicle registration fees, etc.
here is some basic info on CA law.
first the car has to still be under the 3/36 warranty AND you have to be the first or second owner, 3rd owner on up can't apply for CA Lemon Law.
- In California, the lemon law covers vehicles only if they are sold with an express warranty. An “express warranty” for purposes of the California lemon law means an agreement by the seller or manufacturer to “preserve or maintain the utility or performance of the consumer good or provide compensation if there is a failure in utility or performance” – in other words, a warranty is any guarantee by the seller or maker of the goods that they will work properly. [Please take note that “service contracts” and “extended warranties” in which a third party ([i]i.e., someone other than the manufacturer or seller) agrees to repair any malfunctions or defects do not count as warranties for the purposes of the lemon law in California.
- For new and used cars that are sold with an express warranty, the manufacturer must repair any malfunctions that “substantially impair the use, value, or safety” of the car or truck within a “reasonable number of attempts.”
- No matter how many repair attempts have been made, the California lemon law requires that any single repair attempt take no more than 30 days. The only exceptions to the lemon law’s 30-day requirement are (1) if the consumer agrees in writing that the repair can take longer, or (2) when the delays are the result of conditions or circumstances that are beyond the control of the manufacturer.
- In cases in which the manufacturer cannot repair a substantial malfunction within a “reasonable number of repair attempts” the manufacturer is obligated to promptly either repurchase or replace the car or truck with a new one (i.e., the manufacturer must offer a lemon law buyback).
----
obviously you are going to want to speak to an attorney first, but based on what you have stated I don't think you would qualify, your repairs do not constitute a failure in use, value, or safety of the vehicles, nor have they exceeded the "reasonable attempt" criteria.
----
In my case with GM, they had my vehicle 4 times, for a total of 9 months, the first time it was 3 months to get the repair done and it failed within hours of the pick up of the vehicle. They repaired it 3 more times over the course of 3 years, after the second attempt I moved forward with the arbitration after speaking with an attorney, but I opted to go it alone because my case was very strong, it took 14 months during which time the vehicle was repaired 2 more times, to get to arbitration with GM.
I started with dealing with the Service and General Managers, moved on to dealing with the GM regional Rep, and then up to GM Customer Service and then on to GM's buy back division, in the end GM agreed on a complete buy back under CA law which basically says they have to make me whole again as if I never owned the vehicle, so I was refunded MSRP, all Dealer add on fees and charges, all interest on the loan, all maintenance I could provide receipts for, all state vehicle registration fees, etc.
In my prior self-represented case, I was the 3rd owner of a BMW that had a 7/100 warranty. No problems here.
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02-09-17, 03:54 PM
#8
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Thanks - I don't believe I'm 100% qualified under lemon law at the moment, but the trajectory I'm moving in with this car really has me thinking ahead here... definitely keeping all documentation/logs of the problems I've had. Looking at the actual time the car has been in the shop, it's not a ton, but it has caused me a lot of inconvenience for a luxury car that is supposed to be highly reliable; one of the reasons I moved away from BMW and went with a Lexus! Funny how that's working out for me so far!
02-09-17, 04:16 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
I agree with MOST of what you said. However, the lemon law applies to all owners that own the car during the warranty period. It doesn't matter if you are the 10th owner. The warranty period is what the warranty period is on the car, it does not have to be 3/36.
In my prior self-represented case, I was the 3rd owner of a BMW that had a 7/100 warranty. No problems here.
In my prior self-represented case, I was the 3rd owner of a BMW that had a 7/100 warranty. No problems here.
as for the # of owners, that was told to me by an attorney (not the one from the Camaro), when I looked into Lemon Law on another vehicle 15 years ago, I was the 3rd titled owner, and was told I didn't qualify for Lemon Law, even though the car was still under the 3/36 warranty.
02-09-17, 04:25 PM
#10
In a mechanical issue I can see that, but with a non-mechanical issue, something that falls under the 3/36 bumper to bumper like the sunroof or infotainment system Lemon Law would only apply during that period.
as for the # of owners, that was told to me by an attorney (not the one from the Camaro), when I looked into Lemon Law on another vehicle 15 years ago, I was the 3rd titled owner, and was told I didn't qualify for Lemon Law, even though the car was still under the 3/36 warranty.
as for the # of owners, that was told to me by an attorney (not the one from the Camaro), when I looked into Lemon Law on another vehicle 15 years ago, I was the 3rd titled owner, and was told I didn't qualify for Lemon Law, even though the car was still under the 3/36 warranty.
The law is very simple. If the defect occurs during the warranty period, and if there have been reasonable attempts to fix it, and the dealer cannot, then you are entitled to a buy-back. The only issue here is whether there was a defect, and whether the defect occurred during the warranty period. It's that simple. It's one of the many consumer friendly laws we have.
02-09-17, 06:53 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
BTW, your issue with the nav system is not the head unit, it's the SD card. I had the same issue and my business partner did also in his 2015 GS. They replaced the head unit on my car and reused the same SD card and it didn't solve the issue.
02-09-17, 08:13 PM
#13
This post reminds me of why I don't like to buy used cars.
Why would someone get rid of/trade in a 2015 in 2016? To me there are only a few reasons, but the most likely is they are unhappy with the car (possibly because of quality control issues, ie a lemon). Only other thing I can think of is reposesssion, death of the owner or the odd person who buys something, doesn't like it and trades in in with a year of purchase.
Why would someone get rid of/trade in a 2015 in 2016? To me there are only a few reasons, but the most likely is they are unhappy with the car (possibly because of quality control issues, ie a lemon). Only other thing I can think of is reposesssion, death of the owner or the odd person who buys something, doesn't like it and trades in in with a year of purchase.
02-10-17, 04:48 AM
#14
This post reminds me of why I don't like to buy used cars.
Why would someone get rid of/trade in a 2015 in 2016? To me there are only a few reasons, but the most likely is they are unhappy with the car (possibly because of quality control issues, ie a lemon). Only other thing I can think of is reposesssion, death of the owner or the odd person who buys something, doesn't like it and trades in in with a year of purchase.
Why would someone get rid of/trade in a 2015 in 2016? To me there are only a few reasons, but the most likely is they are unhappy with the car (possibly because of quality control issues, ie a lemon). Only other thing I can think of is reposesssion, death of the owner or the odd person who buys something, doesn't like it and trades in in with a year of purchase.
02-10-17, 07:42 AM
#15
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
This post reminds me of why I don't like to buy used cars.
Why would someone get rid of/trade in a 2015 in 2016? To me there are only a few reasons, but the most likely is they are unhappy with the car (possibly because of quality control issues, ie a lemon). Only other thing I can think of is reposesssion, death of the owner or the odd person who buys something, doesn't like it and trades in in with a year of purchase.
Why would someone get rid of/trade in a 2015 in 2016? To me there are only a few reasons, but the most likely is they are unhappy with the car (possibly because of quality control issues, ie a lemon). Only other thing I can think of is reposesssion, death of the owner or the odd person who buys something, doesn't like it and trades in in with a year of purchase.