Fog light movement
08-17-16, 05:59 PM
#2
Lead Lap
I just went out to the garage to check mine. It is as steady as a rock.
The fog lights are mounted to clips that are on the back side of the bumper. Considering the way that your headlight is not properly aligned with the adjacent body panels and the way that it would appear that the fog light isn't properly secured to the clip on the back of the bumper, that would seem to add to the likelihood that the bumper took a hit at some point between the time when the car left the factory and when you took possession of it.
The fog lights are mounted to clips that are on the back side of the bumper. Considering the way that your headlight is not properly aligned with the adjacent body panels and the way that it would appear that the fog light isn't properly secured to the clip on the back of the bumper, that would seem to add to the likelihood that the bumper took a hit at some point between the time when the car left the factory and when you took possession of it.
08-17-16, 06:29 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lesz
I just went out to the garage to check mine. It is as steady as a rock.
The fog lights are mounted to clips that are on the back side of the bumper. Considering the way that your headlight is not properly aligned with the adjacent body panels and the way that it would appear that the fog light isn't properly secured to the clip on the back of the bumper, that would seem to add to the likelihood that the bumper took a hit at some point between the time when the car left the factory and when you took possession of it.
The fog lights are mounted to clips that are on the back side of the bumper. Considering the way that your headlight is not properly aligned with the adjacent body panels and the way that it would appear that the fog light isn't properly secured to the clip on the back of the bumper, that would seem to add to the likelihood that the bumper took a hit at some point between the time when the car left the factory and when you took possession of it.
08-17-16, 06:31 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lesz
I just went out to the garage to check mine. It is as steady as a rock.
The fog lights are mounted to clips that are on the back side of the bumper. Considering the way that your headlight is not properly aligned with the adjacent body panels and the way that it would appear that the fog light isn't properly secured to the clip on the back of the bumper, that would seem to add to the likelihood that the bumper took a hit at some point between the time when the car left the factory and when you took possession of it.
The fog lights are mounted to clips that are on the back side of the bumper. Considering the way that your headlight is not properly aligned with the adjacent body panels and the way that it would appear that the fog light isn't properly secured to the clip on the back of the bumper, that would seem to add to the likelihood that the bumper took a hit at some point between the time when the car left the factory and when you took possession of it.
08-17-16, 07:24 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
And when I said the fog light I meant the Actual light moves not the assembly. My assembly is also perfectly tight. I mean the actual light that it's giving off
08-17-16, 07:26 PM
#6
Lead Lap
While that might be the case, I suppose that there could be some other explanation. As I said in your other thread, a body shop technician should be able easily to determine whether the bumper took a hit and, if so, what kind of repairs were done.
The clips that secure the fog lights can break off from the bumper with even a relatively minor tap to the bumper, but, since they are actually molded into the back side of the bumper, once they do break off, they can't really be re-attached in a manner that is likely to last. If the clip is broken, the best repair option is to replace the bumper cover, but that is a $1000 repair. Alternatively, a shop can try to re-attach the clip to the back of the bumper cover with some sort of epoxy, but that type of repair isn't likely to last, or they can try to be creative and secure the fog light to some other part near the fog light.
It should be noted that there are more times than we would like to think when damage is done to a vehicle between the time it leaves the factory and the time when it is sold. While I'd prefer not to buy a new vehicle that has been repaired, if the damage was minor and if repairs were done properly, it would be considered to be acceptable to sell such a vehicle as a new vehicle. But I would not consider it to be acceptable to buy a new vehicle if there was more severe damage or if the repairs were not properly done.
My ES was built in Japan, but mine is a 2013, and, until this year, they were all built in Japan.
When I checked mine, I turned on the fog lights, stood outside the car, and opened and shut the door several times. When I did so, the beam of light from the fog lights did not move at all on the back wall of the garage.
But, if you say that the fog light itself appears to be tight, that would make it unlikely that the clip is broken. And if the beam of light is moving even though the assembly appears to be tight, I would wonder if the entire bumper could be moving slightly when you close the door.
The clips that secure the fog lights can break off from the bumper with even a relatively minor tap to the bumper, but, since they are actually molded into the back side of the bumper, once they do break off, they can't really be re-attached in a manner that is likely to last. If the clip is broken, the best repair option is to replace the bumper cover, but that is a $1000 repair. Alternatively, a shop can try to re-attach the clip to the back of the bumper cover with some sort of epoxy, but that type of repair isn't likely to last, or they can try to be creative and secure the fog light to some other part near the fog light.
It should be noted that there are more times than we would like to think when damage is done to a vehicle between the time it leaves the factory and the time when it is sold. While I'd prefer not to buy a new vehicle that has been repaired, if the damage was minor and if repairs were done properly, it would be considered to be acceptable to sell such a vehicle as a new vehicle. But I would not consider it to be acceptable to buy a new vehicle if there was more severe damage or if the repairs were not properly done.
My ES was built in Japan, but mine is a 2013, and, until this year, they were all built in Japan.
But, if you say that the fog light itself appears to be tight, that would make it unlikely that the clip is broken. And if the beam of light is moving even though the assembly appears to be tight, I would wonder if the entire bumper could be moving slightly when you close the door.
Last edited by lesz; 08-17-16 at 07:38 PM.
08-17-16, 08:07 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lesz
While that might be the case, I suppose that there could be some other explanation. As I said in your other thread, a body shop technician should be able easily to determine whether the bumper took a hit and, if so, what kind of repairs were done.
The clips that secure the fog lights can break off from the bumper with even a relatively minor tap to the bumper, but, since they are actually molded into the back side of the bumper, once they do break off, they can't really be re-attached in a manner that is likely to last. If the clip is broken, the best repair option is to replace the bumper cover, but that is a $1000 repair. Alternatively, a shop can try to re-attach the clip to the back of the bumper cover with some sort of epoxy, but that type of repair isn't likely to last, or they can try to be creative and secure the fog light to some other part near the fog light.
It should be noted that there are more times than we would like to think when damage is done to a vehicle between the time it leaves the factory and the time when it is sold. While I'd prefer not to buy a new vehicle that has been repaired, if the damage was minor and if repairs were done properly, it would be considered to be acceptable to sell such a vehicle as a new vehicle. But I would not consider it to be acceptable to buy a new vehicle if there was more severe damage or if the repairs were not properly done.My ES was built in Japan, but mine is a 2013, and, until this year, they were all built in Japan.When I checked mine, I turned on the fog lights, stood outside the car, and opened and shut the door several times. When I did so, the beam of light from the fog lights did not move at all on the back wall of the garage.
But, if you say that the fog light itself appears to be tight, that would make it unlikely that the clip is broken. And if the beam of light is moving even though the assembly appears to be tight, I would wonder if the entire bumper could be moving slightly when you close the door.
The clips that secure the fog lights can break off from the bumper with even a relatively minor tap to the bumper, but, since they are actually molded into the back side of the bumper, once they do break off, they can't really be re-attached in a manner that is likely to last. If the clip is broken, the best repair option is to replace the bumper cover, but that is a $1000 repair. Alternatively, a shop can try to re-attach the clip to the back of the bumper cover with some sort of epoxy, but that type of repair isn't likely to last, or they can try to be creative and secure the fog light to some other part near the fog light.
It should be noted that there are more times than we would like to think when damage is done to a vehicle between the time it leaves the factory and the time when it is sold. While I'd prefer not to buy a new vehicle that has been repaired, if the damage was minor and if repairs were done properly, it would be considered to be acceptable to sell such a vehicle as a new vehicle. But I would not consider it to be acceptable to buy a new vehicle if there was more severe damage or if the repairs were not properly done.My ES was built in Japan, but mine is a 2013, and, until this year, they were all built in Japan.When I checked mine, I turned on the fog lights, stood outside the car, and opened and shut the door several times. When I did so, the beam of light from the fog lights did not move at all on the back wall of the garage.
But, if you say that the fog light itself appears to be tight, that would make it unlikely that the clip is broken. And if the beam of light is moving even though the assembly appears to be tight, I would wonder if the entire bumper could be moving slightly when you close the door.
Trending Topics
08-17-16, 08:18 PM
#8
Lead Lap
Man your really scaring me. When buying a 50k new car you should be confident when spending that much money. But I guess that isn't always the case huh? It was my first Lexus I was really excited as I've always wanted a Lexus. But other then these issues the car has been great and I would make the same choice again if I had too.
08-17-16, 08:19 PM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lesz
As I said, there could be some explanation other than damage after it left the factory. The way to tell, one way or the other, is to have the car looked at by a body shop technician.
08-18-16, 07:34 AM
#10
Lead Lap
I don't think that the fact that there were only 5 miles on the odometer means much. Cars can be damaged when they are being loaded onto the transport vehicle or when they are being taken off of it, and they can be damaged in the dealer's lot.
In any case, there is little to be gained by worrying too much about it before someone with the proper expertise gets a chance to look at it.
Good luck in dealing with the situation.
08-18-16, 07:50 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lesz
As I just posted in your other thread, it really is hard to say, and I don't think that you can know for sure what is going on until someone with the proper expertise and skill to determine if any body or paint work has been done gets a chance to put eyes on the car. There could have been damage done before you took possession of the car, but I'm guessing that there could be other explanations for your issues.
I don't think that the fact that there were only 5 miles on the odometer means much. Cars can be damaged when they are being loaded onto the transport vehicle or when they are being taken off of it, and they can be damaged in the dealer's lot.
In any case, there is little to be gained by worrying too much about it before someone with the proper expertise gets a chance to look at it.
Good luck in dealing with the situation.
I don't think that the fact that there were only 5 miles on the odometer means much. Cars can be damaged when they are being loaded onto the transport vehicle or when they are being taken off of it, and they can be damaged in the dealer's lot.
In any case, there is little to be gained by worrying too much about it before someone with the proper expertise gets a chance to look at it.
Good luck in dealing with the situation.
08-18-16, 08:08 AM
#12
I probably have more time to spend on things like this than a lot of you but I special order my cars and then try to track the car at each step of the delivery process looking for even a one day change in a scheduled event at the port. I try to be present when the truck arrives and then watch it being unloaded and driven off for new car prep. I think most damage occurs and is repaired very professionally at the port (when built in Japan) and I've almost never seen any damage on any cars on the truck. 5 miles on your car doesn't seem to allow much room for damage but it can happen. Actually MANY years ago I was taking a Ford for a test drive and after just a few feet hit two parked cars - the car I was to test (and of course never bought) had absolutely no brakes. During that time it was almost a daytime hobby of mine to walk thru the dealer's back lots and it was not infrequent to see new cars with fairly minor fender bender type damage. And seconding what others have said, do get a good body shop to inspect your car - it sounds to me like it was damaged at some point. I used to think I was pretty good at spotting a repaired car but body shops have become much better and it can be hard to tell sometimes. Now though, they can use a little handheld device to measure the difference in the thickness of the paint which is not even visible - any repainted panel will be quite noticeable.
Good luck with this - it is too bad your close friend is part of the deal even though it is unlikely he was aware of anything with your car.
Dave Mac
Good luck with this - it is too bad your close friend is part of the deal even though it is unlikely he was aware of anything with your car.
Dave Mac
08-18-16, 10:21 AM
#13
Lead Lap
This is just a guess, and I could be completely wrong, but I think that what most likely happened is that the bumper got hit just hard enough to break the clip that attaches the corner of the bumper to the fender. If it was a fairly minor bump, they may have been able to polish out any scuff on the bumper without having to re-paint or replace the bumper, but, if that clip was broken and if the bumper is not properly secured to the rest of the car, that could account for the headlight not being aligned properly, and it could also account for the beam of the fog light bouncing around a bit because, without the clip properly securing the bumper, the whole bumper assembly could be vibrating around a bit. Further, my guess would be that when the dealer became aware of the damage, instead of taking the bumper off of the car to make sure that there was no damage to the clips, shock absorber, etc. and, instead of making sure that everything was properly aligned, they took the easy way out and just buffed off any scuffs on the bumper and put the car back out on the lot. If that was the case, at this point, it will be very difficult for the dealer to backtrack and admit that they were not being honest when they tried to tell you that everything was "normal".
If my guess is correct, it could also account for the issue with your back bumper. If the car took a bump from the front, that bump could have caused the car to move back a short distance and could have caused the rear bumper to tap another vehicle or other object. If that happened, there could have been similar minor damage to the rear bumper. Like with the front bumper, the dealer might have been able to polish out any minor scuff in the finish, but the clip that holds the corner of the bumper to the rear quarter panel could have been broken, which would cause that corner of the bumper to pop out a bit.
Note that the clips that hold the bumpers in place are designed to break easily with only minor impact. When the clips break, that is what is supposed to prevent or minimize damage from a minor impact spreading to areas beyond the bumper. But, if the clips do break and if they are not replaced, the result is likely going to be that the bumper will not be aligned perfectly with adjacent panels.
Again, my guess could well be entirely wrong, but it is the one that makes the most sense to me with the information that I have.
If my guess is correct, it could also account for the issue with your back bumper. If the car took a bump from the front, that bump could have caused the car to move back a short distance and could have caused the rear bumper to tap another vehicle or other object. If that happened, there could have been similar minor damage to the rear bumper. Like with the front bumper, the dealer might have been able to polish out any minor scuff in the finish, but the clip that holds the corner of the bumper to the rear quarter panel could have been broken, which would cause that corner of the bumper to pop out a bit.
Note that the clips that hold the bumpers in place are designed to break easily with only minor impact. When the clips break, that is what is supposed to prevent or minimize damage from a minor impact spreading to areas beyond the bumper. But, if the clips do break and if they are not replaced, the result is likely going to be that the bumper will not be aligned perfectly with adjacent panels.
Again, my guess could well be entirely wrong, but it is the one that makes the most sense to me with the information that I have.
Last edited by lesz; 08-18-16 at 10:40 AM.
08-18-16, 11:27 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lesz
This is just a guess, and I could be completely wrong, but I think that what most likely happened is that the bumper got hit just hard enough to break the clip that attaches the corner of the bumper to the fender. If it was a fairly minor bump, they may have been able to polish out any scuff on the bumper without having to re-paint or replace the bumper, but, if that clip was broken and if the bumper is not properly secured to the rest of the car, that could account for the headlight not being aligned properly, and it could also account for the beam of the fog light bouncing around a bit because, without the clip properly securing the bumper, the whole bumper assembly could be vibrating around a bit. Further, my guess would be that when the dealer became aware of the damage, instead of taking the bumper off of the car to make sure that there was no damage to the clips, shock absorber, etc. and, instead of making sure that everything was properly aligned, they took the easy way out and just buffed off any scuffs on the bumper and put the car back out on the lot. If that was the case, at this point, it will be very difficult for the dealer to backtrack and admit that they were not being honest when they tried to tell you that everything was "normal".
If my guess is correct, it could also account for the issue with your back bumper. If the car took a bump from the front, that bump could have caused the car to move back a short distance and could have caused the rear bumper to tap another vehicle or other object. If that happened, there could have been similar minor damage to the rear bumper. Like with the front bumper, the dealer might have been able to polish out any minor scuff in the finish, but the clip that holds the corner of the bumper to the rear quarter panel could have been broken, which would cause that corner of the bumper to pop out a bit.
Note that the clips that hold the bumpers in place are designed to break easily with only minor impact. When the clips break, that is what is supposed to prevent or minimize damage from a minor impact spreading to areas beyond the bumper. But, if the clips do break and if they are not replaced, the result is likely going to be that the bumper will not be aligned perfectly with adjacent panels.
Again, my guess could well be entirely wrong, but it is the one that makes the most sense to me with the information that I have.
If my guess is correct, it could also account for the issue with your back bumper. If the car took a bump from the front, that bump could have caused the car to move back a short distance and could have caused the rear bumper to tap another vehicle or other object. If that happened, there could have been similar minor damage to the rear bumper. Like with the front bumper, the dealer might have been able to polish out any minor scuff in the finish, but the clip that holds the corner of the bumper to the rear quarter panel could have been broken, which would cause that corner of the bumper to pop out a bit.
Note that the clips that hold the bumpers in place are designed to break easily with only minor impact. When the clips break, that is what is supposed to prevent or minimize damage from a minor impact spreading to areas beyond the bumper. But, if the clips do break and if they are not replaced, the result is likely going to be that the bumper will not be aligned perfectly with adjacent panels.
Again, my guess could well be entirely wrong, but it is the one that makes the most sense to me with the information that I have.
08-18-16, 11:50 AM
#15
Lead Lap
I say all of this while fully accepting the likelihood that my diagnosis/guess from afar as to what the problem is might be entirely incorrect.