SW17LS

Not really, a loaded up Genesis exceeds the equipment level of a loaded ES, and you wind up with a more substantial car on a premium RWD platform. If you're going to go loaded on the Genesis I'd just get the V8, it's only another $1000.

Put snow tires on a RWD Genesis and you have a better snow car than a FWD ES.

ARM350F

I cant afford a v8 right now but I can't see myself in a Genesis, I'm going to go test drive one tomorrow as well as an ES.

SW17LS

When you drive the Genesis you have to put the brand issue out of it. If you see yourself in an ES, there's no reason you wouldn't see yourself in a Genesis, other than the brand. The Genesis is everything the ES is designed to be, just done better IMHO.

It's a great car.

pab12

>When you drive the Genesis you have to put the brand issue out of it.

Took a look at the recent Motor Trend at the dentist's office this morning and saw that Hyundai is craving off Genesis to become its own brand.
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2 "Satin Edition" (250.06 whp / 259.67 torque)

SW17LS

Yeah they are

mspearl95

I thought it's a well known fact that fwd do better in snow than rwd? Pulling vs pushing and all that.

Mike728

Same tires on both and the FWD wins.

LexBob2

Genesis seems to be in some good company. CR reports from their Owner Surveys 83% said they'd definitely buy again. Some other %'s were A7 84%, LS 84%, A6 82%, ES 80%.

SW17LS

This is a common misconception. People think FWD cars are better in the snow because they are easier to get moving from a stop. That's where their superiority ends though. In a FWD car the drive wheels and the steering wheels are the same wheels, so when you have a loss of traction from throttle you loose the ability to steer and vice versa. FWD cars are very nose heavy too, which makes them very prone to plowing or understeer when driving in the snow, when you're in understeer guess what you can't do? Steer.

I'd much rather have a RWD car with winter tires than a FWD car on all seasons or winter tires. If they were on all seasons both I would take the FWD just because it's easier to get going but you have to be aware of the dynamic limitations of FWD vehicles in this circumstance.

jollick

It's Snowing: Do I Want Front-, Rear- or All-Wheel Drive?
By Joe Wiesenfelder, Cars.com

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGui...ferer&year=New


What Is Best For Winter Driving: RWD, FWD, AWD or 4WD?

https://www.motorists.org/blog/winte...d-fwd-awd-4wd/

ARM350F

I live in LA so snow would not be a concern whatsoever. So that has nothing to do with my decision I'm more interested in the overall personality of the car.

SW17LS

Those articles say pretty much exactly what I said. The benefit FWD cars have in the snow, and why they have a reputation of being "better" comes from the weight over the drive wheels which helps you get moving in the snow. It makes progress feel easier while in reality once underway handling is actually diminished from a RWD or AWD vehicle.

I became a believer in these differences years ago when I took an advanced driving course that included time behind the wheel of skid cars. They were able to show me the different behaviors that occurred under different circumstances in different types of vehicles. There is no question that understeer skids are easier to recover from in a RWD car than a FWD car. Come down a hill to a turn in the snow in a FWD car and a RWD car, the difference is very real.

The RWD car has the added issue of oversteer, or "fishtailing", which is pretty easily controlled with driving skill, but better yet modern stability control systems are unbelievably good at stopping oversteer...not so much understeer.

All you have to do is head over to the older RWD model sections here at CL and read first hand reports of people driving RWD LS400s and LS430s, GS300s, etc in the snow with winter tires and how good they are in the snow. Need weight? Add weight.

So I maintain, I would much rather drive a modern RWD car with stability control and winter tires in the snow than any FWD car.

People put too much emphasis on getting moving when judging snow performance. This is why you see SUVs spun out in ditches all over the place. Getting moving from a stop is not at all the most important thing you have to consider. People don't die in accidents that occurred because their car wouldn't get moving from a red light...they die in accidents when they have to turn and the driver looses control of the vehicle.

Thats just it...these cars have no personality. The GS has a strong personality, but the ES, Genesis, even my LS which I enjoy very much doesn't really have any personality.

ARM350F

So I drove the cars today, the Genesis was impressive and I can definitely see myself in it now, however the salesperson complete blew me off. By the way the 5.0 V8 is a huge disappointment I'm pretty sure my GS has more grunt to it even though it's 120 hp down.


As for the ES it is nice, comfortable, and lived up to my expectations; which is nice as I will have long commutes soon when I start going to university.

Ken7

Not what I found. Picking an AWD (which I'd still want if not FWD) with NAV (we will not get a car without built-in NAV) you come up with $53,000. You must take on the other packages with the NAV, but I'd take them anyway because they include what I consider to be mandatory safety equipment. Hyundai is vey sneaky in that they throw one or two safety features that most people would want, but in different packages.

Don't want AWD (I would since I think it's still safer and less of a hassle than changing tires in the winter), you're still at $50,600.

So to get what you need, you may get a bit more equipment, but it's equipment that many may not care about.

I'll stick with my ES.

SW17LS

Lexus does the same thing. What you don't realize is that the car has nav base, you don't have to buy the upgraded nav. The basic nav is more equivalent to what is in the ES than the upgraded nav. The base nav has an 8 inch display while the upgraded nav has a 9.2 inch display. The ES with navigation has an 8 inch screen, same as the basic Genesis screen.

You can't just load up a Genesis and an ES and compare them, the Genesis loaded is higher spec than the ES loaded. To make a Genesis similar to a luxury ES or even a UL really all you need is the signature package, which brings the RWD price to $43,600 and the AWD to $46,100.

An ES with the luxury package is $42,150, making the Genesis only $1,500 more, and it is better equipped (Panoramic roof, etc), and its a bespoke RWD platform, longer wheelbase, better ride, quieter more refined.

I liked my ES', but I'd have a real hard time getting one now over the Genesis. The Genesis reminds me a lot of the LS actually, in fact its almost exactly the same dimensions as our first 98 LS. 196" long, 118 inch wheelbase (3.5 inches longer than the ES and 7.5 inches longer wheelbase).