Need some input
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Not really, a loaded up Genesis exceeds the equipment level of a loaded ES, and you wind up with a more substantial car on a premium RWD platform. If you're going to go loaded on the Genesis I'd just get the V8, it's only another $1000.
Put snow tires on a RWD Genesis and you have a better snow car than a FWD ES.
Put snow tires on a RWD Genesis and you have a better snow car than a FWD ES.
#18
Lexus Fanatic
When you drive the Genesis you have to put the brand issue out of it. If you see yourself in an ES, there's no reason you wouldn't see yourself in a Genesis, other than the brand. The Genesis is everything the ES is designed to be, just done better IMHO.
It's a great car.
It's a great car.
#19
>When you drive the Genesis you have to put the brand issue out of it.
Took a look at the recent Motor Trend at the dentist's office this morning and saw that Hyundai is craving off Genesis to become its own brand.
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2 "Satin Edition" (250.06 whp / 259.67 torque)
Took a look at the recent Motor Trend at the dentist's office this morning and saw that Hyundai is craving off Genesis to become its own brand.
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My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2 "Satin Edition" (250.06 whp / 259.67 torque)
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah they are
#21
#22
#23
Lexus Champion
Genesis seems to be in some good company. CR reports from their Owner Surveys 83% said they'd definitely buy again. Some other %'s were A7 84%, LS 84%, A6 82%, ES 80%.
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by mspearl95
I thought it's a well known fact that fwd do better in snow than rwd? Pulling vs pushing and all that.
I'd much rather have a RWD car with winter tires than a FWD car on all seasons or winter tires. If they were on all seasons both I would take the FWD just because it's easier to get going but you have to be aware of the dynamic limitations of FWD vehicles in this circumstance.
#25
It's Snowing: Do I Want Front-, Rear- or All-Wheel Drive?
By Joe Wiesenfelder, Cars.com
http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGui...ferer&year=New
What Is Best For Winter Driving: RWD, FWD, AWD or 4WD?
https://www.motorists.org/blog/winte...d-fwd-awd-4wd/
By Joe Wiesenfelder, Cars.com
http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGui...ferer&year=New
What Is Best For Winter Driving: RWD, FWD, AWD or 4WD?
https://www.motorists.org/blog/winte...d-fwd-awd-4wd/
#26
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I live in LA so snow would not be a concern whatsoever. So that has nothing to do with my decision I'm more interested in the overall personality of the car.
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Those articles say pretty much exactly what I said. The benefit FWD cars have in the snow, and why they have a reputation of being "better" comes from the weight over the drive wheels which helps you get moving in the snow. It makes progress feel easier while in reality once underway handling is actually diminished from a RWD or AWD vehicle.
I became a believer in these differences years ago when I took an advanced driving course that included time behind the wheel of skid cars. They were able to show me the different behaviors that occurred under different circumstances in different types of vehicles. There is no question that understeer skids are easier to recover from in a RWD car than a FWD car. Come down a hill to a turn in the snow in a FWD car and a RWD car, the difference is very real.
The RWD car has the added issue of oversteer, or "fishtailing", which is pretty easily controlled with driving skill, but better yet modern stability control systems are unbelievably good at stopping oversteer...not so much understeer.
All you have to do is head over to the older RWD model sections here at CL and read first hand reports of people driving RWD LS400s and LS430s, GS300s, etc in the snow with winter tires and how good they are in the snow. Need weight? Add weight.
So I maintain, I would much rather drive a modern RWD car with stability control and winter tires in the snow than any FWD car.
People put too much emphasis on getting moving when judging snow performance. This is why you see SUVs spun out in ditches all over the place. Getting moving from a stop is not at all the most important thing you have to consider. People don't die in accidents that occurred because their car wouldn't get moving from a red light...they die in accidents when they have to turn and the driver looses control of the vehicle.
Thats just it...these cars have no personality. The GS has a strong personality, but the ES, Genesis, even my LS which I enjoy very much doesn't really have any personality.
I became a believer in these differences years ago when I took an advanced driving course that included time behind the wheel of skid cars. They were able to show me the different behaviors that occurred under different circumstances in different types of vehicles. There is no question that understeer skids are easier to recover from in a RWD car than a FWD car. Come down a hill to a turn in the snow in a FWD car and a RWD car, the difference is very real.
The RWD car has the added issue of oversteer, or "fishtailing", which is pretty easily controlled with driving skill, but better yet modern stability control systems are unbelievably good at stopping oversteer...not so much understeer.
All you have to do is head over to the older RWD model sections here at CL and read first hand reports of people driving RWD LS400s and LS430s, GS300s, etc in the snow with winter tires and how good they are in the snow. Need weight? Add weight.
So I maintain, I would much rather drive a modern RWD car with stability control and winter tires in the snow than any FWD car.
People put too much emphasis on getting moving when judging snow performance. This is why you see SUVs spun out in ditches all over the place. Getting moving from a stop is not at all the most important thing you have to consider. People don't die in accidents that occurred because their car wouldn't get moving from a red light...they die in accidents when they have to turn and the driver looses control of the vehicle.
Originally Posted by MrDemon
I live in LA so snow would not be a concern whatsoever. So that has nothing to do with my decision I'm more interested in the overall personality of the car.
#28
Pole Position
Thread Starter
So I drove the cars today, the Genesis was impressive and I can definitely see myself in it now, however the salesperson complete blew me off. By the way the 5.0 V8 is a huge disappointment I'm pretty sure my GS has more grunt to it even though it's 120 hp down.
As for the ES it is nice, comfortable, and lived up to my expectations; which is nice as I will have long commutes soon when I start going to university.
As for the ES it is nice, comfortable, and lived up to my expectations; which is nice as I will have long commutes soon when I start going to university.
Last edited by ARM350F; 01-27-16 at 05:31 PM.
#29
Not really, a loaded up Genesis exceeds the equipment level of a loaded ES, and you wind up with a more substantial car on a premium RWD platform. If you're going to go loaded on the Genesis I'd just get the V8, it's only another $1000.
Put snow tires on a RWD Genesis and you have a better snow car than a FWD ES.
Put snow tires on a RWD Genesis and you have a better snow car than a FWD ES.
Don't want AWD (I would since I think it's still safer and less of a hassle than changing tires in the winter), you're still at $50,600.
So to get what you need, you may get a bit more equipment, but it's equipment that many may not care about.
I'll stick with my ES.
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Not what I found. Picking an AWD (which I'd still want if not FWD) with NAV (we will not get a car without built-in NAV) you come up with $53,000. You must take on the other packages with the NAV, but I'd take them anyway because they include what I consider to be mandatory safety equipment. Hyundai is vey sneaky in that they throw one or two safety features that most people would want, but in different packages.
Don't want AWD (I would since I think it's still safer and less of a hassle than changing tires in the winter), you're still at $50,600.
So to get what you need, you may get a bit more equipment, but it's equipment that many may not care about.
I'll stick with my ES.
Don't want AWD (I would since I think it's still safer and less of a hassle than changing tires in the winter), you're still at $50,600.
So to get what you need, you may get a bit more equipment, but it's equipment that many may not care about.
I'll stick with my ES.
You can't just load up a Genesis and an ES and compare them, the Genesis loaded is higher spec than the ES loaded. To make a Genesis similar to a luxury ES or even a UL really all you need is the signature package, which brings the RWD price to $43,600 and the AWD to $46,100.
An ES with the luxury package is $42,150, making the Genesis only $1,500 more, and it is better equipped (Panoramic roof, etc), and its a bespoke RWD platform, longer wheelbase, better ride, quieter more refined.
I liked my ES', but I'd have a real hard time getting one now over the Genesis. The Genesis reminds me a lot of the LS actually, in fact its almost exactly the same dimensions as our first 98 LS. 196" long, 118 inch wheelbase (3.5 inches longer than the ES and 7.5 inches longer wheelbase).
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-28-16 at 02:04 PM.