newbie16

I'm looking to buy a 2014/15 ES350 and am surprised to see that AWD is not an option. I currently have a Acura RL with AWD and along with looking at the Acura RLX/TLX am also looking at the Infiniti Q50/70. Both the Acura and Infiniti models offer AWD options, so wondering why Lexus does not on the ES. I live in the DC area so winters are not that harsh, but want to make sure I have a car that handles well in bad weather. Would like to hear from ES owners, especially in areas up north on how it handles in the bad winter weather. Thanks

LexBob2

If AWD is a must have, and you want a Lexus, the IS or GS is the way to go. I had back to back ES350's and once you get used to the FWD handling characteristics, they get around well in bad weather.

Mike728

^^agree

I have a feeling they're looking into an AWD option on the ES, though. As the latest "Lexus Advisory Board" survey was full of questions regarding AWD and the ES.

bc6152

I'm in Pennsylvania where we get a fair share of snow in winter. I find that driving judiciously one can get around quite easily with the FWD ES. Pass a lot of BMW's, Benz's, and Camaros on side streets.

sderman

We own a ES (our 3rd) and a RX (our 2nd) here in NJ. The ES handles well enough in light-medium snow although it obviously does not perform as well as the RX, especially on inclines. My opinion is that unless you live in areas where the winters are especially long, harsh and with constant snow (not in NJ), then the gas-savings throughout the year you get with FWD does not justify the need of a AWD vehicle. Remember also that braking between both types of vehicles will be similar. And for the very worse weather conditions, it's best to keep all vehicles off the road since you are at the mercy of other drivers, many with RWD and many with tires that should not be on a snowy slick road. On the subject of tires, as cheap insurance at the beginning of winter, I will often replace tires that are still serviceable with new ones.

JDR76

I don't have any ES experience but do have lots of FWD experience. With good tires, I've always found FWD to be quite capable in moderate snow. In places where snow is an infrequent inconvenience, I think FWD is fine.

If you want a Lexus sedan with AWD, you need to go with the IS, GS, or LS.

I personally like AWD in the rain and for those occasional snow days, but wouldn't shy away from FWD.

Maikerusan

Here in Canada many brands have convinced people that AWD is the way to go....but that's not necessarily the case.

AWD may help in deep snow for traction but it does not help you braking and stopping, and that's where most accidents happen. Not because you can't get traction, because you can't stop on ice and frozen roads.

Just take a look next time you are in a major storm..many of the casualties in the ditch have AWD---makes them feel invincible, but they are not.

lesz

Ain't that the truth?

For almost 20 years, I drove back and forth every weekend from my home in the city to my country home about 150 miles away. During most of those winters, there would be 3 or 4 Friday or Sunday evenings when I made the trip during a heavy snow or ice storm. When I was driving on the interstate at a reduced speed, I recall all of the vehicles that were passing me and traveling at a much higher rate of speed than they should have been driving, but it was remarkable how much the speed of most of the traffic slowed down after we passed the first vehicle in the ditch. And it was amazing that, in the significant majority of cases, that first vehicle in the ditch was a 4WD or AWD SUV being driven by someone who thought that the 4WD or AWD made him/her invincible. (And, more often than not, that SUV had a ski rack mounted on its roof.)

I'm now on my 2nd FWD ES, and I've owned those vehicles through 8 Midwest winters. When driving with common sense, I've never had an issue with winter driving. There have been only a couple of times when I've felt the car start to skid, but, especially with today's advanced stability control systems, I've quickly been able to get it back under control.

I also agree that, if you are using some common sense with winter driving, the greatest danger comes from other drivers, including those who are driving AWD vehicles, who feel invincible and who are not driving as carefully as they should be.

Twenty years ago, I would have enjoyed driving a RWD vehicle. At this point in my life, a FWD vehicle is the perfect compromise for me. It gives me more security on slippery roads than would a RWD vehicle, and it gives me better fuel economy than would an AWD vehicle.

chrisexv6

Jalopnik had an article comparing AWD with all-season tires to FWD with winters. And of course FWD with winters won. All AWD really helps with is traction *during acceleration*.....once you hit the brakes all 4 tires (regardless of if they are "driven" or not) become skis.

If you are worried about the ES in snow, get a set of wheels and snow tires for winter use only. Ive been looking for some myself for our ES but havent found just the right deal yet.

And FWIW, I have an AWD G37 and sure enough hit a patch of black ice while coming down a hill last winter.....AWD didnt do squat for me at that point. This year I "installed a set of wheels with snow tires (which havent been of much use here in CT yet...not that Im complaining!)

pab12

>but they are not.

Ha, it's funny you should mention that. I travel up to ski country in northern New Hampshire very frequently so am used to driving the interstate in all sorts of weather. Over the years I've seen many, many, people in the ditch right after snow storms, both SUVs and cars. Usually in the mornings on the way up.

But you know the interesting thing, those groups seemed to tend end up in different places. The SUVs all seemed slide off into the median to the left while the cars were off on the right side.

The incidents that I'm referring to were all in the same area, a pronounced curve to the right.

I concluded that the SUV drivers, when they lost traction, lost it at both ends and, with their tall center of gravity vectored in a <notice: math term ahead> "normal" direction taking them to the left. While the cars, mostly FWD, probably lost the rear spun once or twice and ended up on the right side of the road.

You could have placed bets on it.

=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2 "Satin Edition" (250.06 whp / 259.67 torque)
Past Ours: '05 X-Type 3.0/auto Jaguar Racing Green

newbie16

Thanks for all the input, very helpful. I think the comment about there is a perception out there that AWD is better than FWD and worth the additional cost is accurate. However, as many of you pointed out not really the case in many scenarios. The weather here is not bad enough to justify the cost/hassle of having winter tires, thus the same justification can be applied to AWD. I drive a lot for work so the lower cost of fuel is a benefit of FWD and since I also own a Wrangler, that is what I drive when we get snow. Thanks for all the feedback. I'm comfortable that FWD is fine for me

On another note, any recommendations on negotiating with the dealer when buying? I imagine getting them to drop the price is more difficult. What about throwing in some accessories, such as the side molding or door edge guards? Anyone have success with this? Any other suggestions?

bc6152

What I do, and I have never missed with it, is arrive at a number for the sale where you're ready to pull the trigger. Then say "OK it's a deal if you throw in the side molding" ( or any other item that you want.) Maybe illuminated thresholds or factory all-weather mats. You won't get a freebie if you don't ask...

mcomer

You can buy a lot of extra winter tires and wheels with the $10k that a GS350 costs over an ES350.
Not to mention the larger trunk and back seat. Remember the GS needs Premium fuel. Check out
the lease rates/resale value difference. Love my ES300h with Blizzaks...wish it would snow more however!

Kijug

I grew up in Alaska. My first car was a AWD Subaru GL. Loved it. Like someone above said, being young I did crazy things with it BECAUSE it was AWD. I then got the first Subaru Legacy in 1990 but it was FWD only. I was bummed, but it worked great. I moved to TX in '96 and then got an 2003 Acura TLS FWD. When I decided to upgrade in 2014, I went with the Lexus ES. A must was FWD BECAUSE of handling. The GS seems interesting but I will never get a RWD car. My reactions are built into a FWD handling car and I can cruise through rain, sleet, and snow with no problem.

That said, SPEED KILLS. Too many people, even in AK, go the same speed when there is bad weather. Driver slower, don't drive too close to other folks. My daughter just graduated from college and was heading north through OK a month ago when the storms hit. She was going 35 MPH through OK City (good for her!) A moron young guy changed lanes in front of her. He lost control and was going sideways. My daughter put on her brakes--she's not experienced like I am--and slid and hit him (lightly, fortunately). But she got a taste of what it's like when all four wheels lose traction (it was icy/snowy).

RWD cars may have better acceleration and handling coming out of turns, but that is only if you USE your car that way. My Acura I drove hard and FWD will nose into a curve, but that didn't stop me...just had to buy tires more often. LOL!

Nearly two years in and I'm loving my 2014 Lexus ES w/ UL/ML. I'm a FWD dude, for sure!

LexBob2

The big advantage the GS has is the choice of RWD or AWD. Maybe one day the ES will offer AWD, but for now it's either the GS, IS or LS.