TomMartin

Well, I brought my Land Cruiser to Lexus to have some service done. Service rep is allowing me to keep an ES 350 (2015) for two days while the service is completed...the two day part as he is aware that I am looking at ES/GS purchase question and I wanted to start by getting a feel of the ES over a couple of days.

Had it out running local errands for a couple of hours this afternoon and following are a few very early impressions/questions. BTW, I was supposed to have a 2016 ES 350 but someone screwed up and only had 2015s available in service loaner pool.

1) It is a nice pretty well finished/put together vehicle.

2) Highway road noise not insignificant...2016 supposedly improved upon that? Had Michelin 17" tires with 10K miles.

3) Front end perception lacking...at least vs our 2008 Honda Accord. Would need to "learn" where the front end "is" b4 any accidents.

4) Seats quickly felt "hard"...again vs the Accord...not sure about 2016 ES seats and also GS seats.

5) Extra rear leg room appears to have been stolen from the truck.

6) 2 Hour summary...pretty good quality/above average "quietness" (overall)/seats?/overall...kind of vanilla...nothing to get very excited about. We shall see...wife will drive more tomorrow since it would be her primary vehicle.

Plan is to test drive 2015 GS 350 a bit later.

BTW...beautiful new red on I think a 2016 RC 350...not the F...wish a 2 dr was acceptable. TomMartin

P.S. Other thoughts? Am I doomed to "spend up" to a GS for just a bit of excitement? TMR

LexBob2

Sounds like you may be a GS kinda guy.

Mike728

I'm sure the loaner isn't a UL. The seats in the UL are far superior to the other models, mainly due to the leg extender and softer leather. Loaners are beat! Don't make your final decision based on it. That said, the GS will probably meet all your needs, if rear leg room isn't a huge issue for you. You get what you pay for.

dchar

If you're looking for a comfy cruiser with a large backseat, then the ES is a good fit for you (or wife).
If you're looking for a sport sedan that handles better and is even more refined, then the GS is a good fit for you.

TomMartin

My wife's current car is a 2008 Honda Accord EXL w/4 cylinder and a manual transmission and I can tell you that it is a great handling car a fun to drive. Now up to 130K miles and we originally bought it as a "temporary" car until we found one we liked. I keep the tire air pressure near 40#...partly for gas mileage and partly for handling. I have been very pleased with the Accord and when I drive it I am always reminded of how fun it is to drive.

Now the Accord does have some issues...our biggest complaint is the very bad road noise. We enjoy long driving road trips and listen to books on tape on the less busy long freeway stretches and you really have to have the volume up to hear the tapes. Newer versions of the Accord are said to have made major improvements in road noise.

We would now like to move to a slightly better vehicle with a bit more comfort and quality.

I really want to like the ES as I DO like the relative price tag. Not sure I will get there

Some pretty good deals brewing on leftover 2015 GS F Sports...dealer said $7K total "program" money available and other have gotten up to $10K...may need to look closer at 2015 GS F Sport...or regular 2015 GS.

Well, we shall see what tomorrow's time in the ES brings...TomMartin

P.S. Also, do not need large back seat...much prefer more room in the trunk.

bc6152

What about that Minnesota snow? The ES 350 being front drive does much better in snow than the rear drive GS. The Honda even better
(I have a 2014 Accord). For me, in snowy Pennsylvania, it's FWD.

LexBob2

Around here, maybe in MN too virtually all the GS on dealer lots ars AWD.

yardie876

Love the ES for what it is, but if you're looking for any degree of dynamics in your commute, the GS is right up your alley. Luxurious ride when you want it and great sporty ride when you prefer. It's really the best of both worlds.

TomMartin

LexBob is right on...I do not think dealer stocks any RWD GSs. I was kind of disappointed that the coming 4cyl GS is only in RWD. FWD really does handle winter very well...particularly if you have reasonable experience in bad winters. On the Accord we have not changed tires...just use a good all-season.

TomMartin

dchar

The GS is RWD rather than FWD for handling reasons (in the dry). But you won't be disappointed by an AWD GS in the snow. You'll just have to pay a bit more in fuel (to the already pretty bad mpg in the V6). You don't want the turbo-4 engine anyways; it's going to be pretty slow and not as refined as the V6.

TomMartin

Thanks for the info. As an aside...I have been surprised and pleased with the 190HP 4cyl in the Accord...accompanied by the 5 spd manual. Honda uses a VTEK with a cam that "slides" to a more aggressive profile when you call for more power. Truth is I pretty much can use gear rations to get more than adequate power.

I was very doubtful about the 4 cyl...along with the multitude of companies now using more and more 4 cyl...Volvo/BMW etc...but I can now see how they may work. Not sure if Lexus has the right setup with the new 4 cyl.

My 2008 Accord is actually just a bit larger than the ES and yet is a pleasure to drive (other than the terrible road noise)...sure wish Lexus had the "culture" to be a bit more handling and driver focused.

TomMartin

pab12

>My 2008 Accord is actually

Honda makes fine cars, it's just too bad that Acuras are so darn ugly. Otherwise I might be driving one rather than my '13 ES350.

I definitely went for comfortable and pretty rather than Honda-refined and butt-ugly.
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma

lesz

If you are willing to live with the harsher ride that comes with having the tires at 40 psi (partially) because you are concerned about fuel economy, are you also willing to live with highway mpg that is almost 20% lower with an AWD GS than it is with an ES (although the difference is only about 10% city)?


Also, note that, if the trunk capacity of the ES is smaller than you would like, the trunk capacity of the GS is about 7% smaller than that of the ES. With my ES, I don't find that the approximately 15 square feet of trunk space in the ES to be limiting, but what I occasionally do find to be a problem is that the relatively short rear deck can make it difficult or, sometimes, impossible to load a taller or bulkier item into the trunk. I've had, at least, a few times when I've had to put boxes in the back seat because the trunk opening wasn't large enough to be able to get them into the trunk.


It may well be that the GS, in fact, better meets your needs than does ES, but, if fuel economy and trunk capacity are, indeed, important to you, the GS is going in the wrong direction.

Choosing a vehicle does involve compromises, but I'm wondering if some vehicle other than either the ES or GS might not make compromises that better fit your needs.

TomMartin

Lesz...After nearly 500K miles on three Toyota Land Cruisers...with essentially only one "non-maintenance" repair...i want to stick with a high quality, low repair history brand. Audi/BMW/Mercedes all have interesting models but each has a pretty doubtful repair history and cost. I do really like the Lexus culture in general and in fact often take my Land Cruiser there...even though it is a bit more expensive.

You are probably correct that I need to look at alternatives. I kind of like the numerous small crossover/suvs but to date my wife wants a trunk. BTW...she also wants a bright, aggressive red color and prefers a manual transmission.. I think I should take her on a test drive of one of the new NXs...seem pretty sporty to me yet with a pretty good size "trunk" and pretty good gas mileage. ..no manual transmission.

BTW...the MPG on the Land Cruisers show I am willing to compromise my MPG desires for the right vehicles. Land Cruisers MPG has "improved" to almost 15 MPG ...yet I am seriously trying to rationalize a 4th Land Cruiser soon...Thanks...TomMartin

Jets

The Toyota Land Cruiser is arguably the best built most reliable vehicle on the planet. Hard to compare anything to it. Maybe you should bite the bullet and get the LX....
http://www.lexus.com/models/LX