Mhobizal

Back before I purchased my 2014 ES300h, I test drove a 2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid. It was a nice car, but did just not feel or drive like the Lexus. Nice car, but to me, I liked how quite the Lexus drove and its' ride.

It was a personal observation on my part.

As for the luggage space in my car, it is more than adequate for my wife and I. We went on a 5 day vacation and had plenty of space. Yes, the space is smaller due to the batteries, but you can put large suitcases on their side and they fit well in the space.

SLH

You should be aware that the hybrid is not really an advantage for cruising at highway speed. For constant-speed highway driving, the fuel mileage is about the same as the non-hybrid version. The air-resistance is the same, and the tire rolling resistance is the same (on the same kind of tires, of course). So the power required to cruise at highway speed is the same, and the fuel used is essentially the same. If anything, the extra weight of the hybrid equipment will yield lower fuel mileage, not higher, when cruising at constant speed...

The main advantage of the hybrid comes in stop-and-go city driving, and in slow-speed driving around town. At slow speeds, the system can turn the motor off completely for some periods. And the energy from braking is stored and reused, rather than being discarded as brake heat.

A secondary advantage is that some states allow hybrid cars to use the HOV (carpool) lanes, even without a second person. When traffic is mostly stopped in the regular lanes, and the HOV lane is going 40+ mph, the cars the regular lanes get 0 (zero) mpg, while the hybrid car in the HOV lane still gets its regular 35-ish.

lesz

For those with an ES300h in the US, they should have noticeably more trunk space than what you have because, for both the ES300h and the ES350 in the US, we do not have a full-size spare.

lesz

My experience with my ES350 does, I think, back that up. For most of my last 4 or 5 fill ups, my driving has been at speeds of between 60 and 70 mph and on relatively flat roads and with rare need to stop for traffic lights or stop signs. For each of those fill-ups, my actually calculated fuel economy has been between 36 and 37 mpg.

I live out in the country, and even with more typical driving on terrain with lots of hills, my overall calculated mpg for the 2+ years that I've had the ES 350 has been a little over 32 mpg. It is only when I have the rare need to drive in stop-and-go traffic that my mpg drops into the mid-20s.

With the kind of driving that I do, any mpg advantage that the ES300h would have over the ES 350 would be, I'm confident, fairly minimal because it is rare for me to drive in the conditions in which a hybrid would show its fuel economy advantages.

NickTee

That is incorrect. The ES300h will easily achieve 35-36 mpg on the highway and if you're really conservative and do hyper-miling techniques, you can get closer to 40mpg. Those are numbers you're not going to see with the ES350. The ES350 is going to be around 28-30mpg on the highway. So it's at at an advantage in both the city and on the highway.
That being said, the ES300h is fairly gutless and is significantly slower than the ES350.

TechNut

This has been a discussion in the RX forum and I have stated it here before as well. There are more reasons than simply improved MPG to like hybrid vehicles. They are smoother (no gears in the CVT transmission) and quieter, especially at stop lights. Some people like the environmental benefits of lower CO2 emissions although I personally think the environmental benefits are somewhat negated when you consider disposal of the batteries when that day comes. I don't consider myself an environmentalist so those factors aren't a big deal for us, but my wife and I carpool daily on city streets so it does keep our fuel costs lower (that way I can spend more time at the car wash without any guilt )

We have not had 300H on a long drive yet, so I can't really debate the idea that they both get about the same mileage, or worse due to the additional weight of the hybrid components. If they had the same internal combustion engine I probably wouldn't doubt that analysis, but the hybrid only has a four cylinder ICE so the evaluation isn't quite as simple as suggested earlier in this thread.

As for the comment about the 300H having less power, I don't doubt that at all. But we were replacing a Prius so it has a lot more power than we were used to. We are perfectly happy with the power but it isn't a car for those that expect spirited driving.

zes

This is actually not correct. The 4 cyl engine in the 300h uses an Atkinson cycle which is thermodynamically more efficient than the 6 cyl engine Otto cycle in the 350. The Atkinson cycle has lower torque which is then supplemented by the electric motors in the 300h. The higher thermodynamic efficieny of the Atkinson cycle and the lower frictional losses because of fewer cylinders (4 vs 6) does lead to better fuel efficiency on the highway as well.

NickTee

For more reading on what zes is mentioning:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2015/01...son-cycle.html

gemigniani

Avalon = lots more owner complaints about stiff, abrupt ride motions and interior quality:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/31...on-owners.html

Also lots more complaints about the thin front seat padding:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/31...at-bottom.html

1NEAT_SC

I had the 2014 Limited Avalon Hybrid and I can tell anyone that wants to know, there is a difference in the ride. There also is some small things that became a pest to me about the Avalon. Of course the seats do not fit like a Lexus 300h or any Lexus that I currently own. Did anyone ever notice how hard it is to see the outside temperature in the Avalon? How about the GPS monitor at night? You have to reach through the steering wheel to adjust the light on the GPS monitor. Really, those things alone disturbed me. So, last May I traded for a 300h and I can tell you those little pesty things went away. I dearly love the ride and just about everything about the 2015 300h. I was so disappointed with the Avalon after my purchase.

Just my .02 cents worth. One of my biggest regrets was purchasing the 2014 Avalon Limited Hybrid.

Cheers,

Lar

Sulu

Let me offer 2 comments, one about the fuel efficiency of my 2015 ESh, and two, about the size of the trunk.

I am getting similar fuel efficiency on my ESh (with the 2.5-litre 4-cylinder engine running the Atkinson cycle) as I got on my 2010 Corolla (with the 1.8-litre 4-cylinder, 4-speed auto trans). This is in a mix of highway and city driving. Even the ES does not really need the larger 6-cylinder engine for highway cruising; the electric motor is there to supplement the engine when more power (torque) is needed. Needless to say, I am impressed.


I just received a new perspective on the size of the trunk.

1. When my brother and young (pre-school) nephew came to visit back in February, it was lucky he brought only one large piece of luggage. I had to fit it in sideways in the trunk because of the limited length (from bumper to seatback/battery).
2. When we left on an extended vacation last month, I requested a minivan to take us to the airport, worried that the luggage for the 3 of us (2 larger and 1 smaller) would not fit in a car limo (usually a large RWD Ford or Lincoln sedan).
3. When we recently returned and lined up for the available limos at the airport arrivals curb, I wanted to take the Lincoln Town Car limo, afraid that the ESh limo (yes, they use current-gen ESh as limos here in Toronto) ahead of it would not fit our bags. The driver fit in all 3 pieces without problem into the ESh and did not have to fit any piece in sideways (granted, our luggage was (much) smaller than what my brother used).

I remain impressed with my ESh: a much larger car with similar fuel efficiency to a compact Corolla and with a trunk only slightly smaller (wider but not as long) as my old Corolla.

I have not driven the current Avalon but all comments here echo what I have read in reviews (worse noise, vibration, harshness) than the ES.

LexBob2

In their Road Tests Consumer Reports gave both the gas and hybrid Avalon slightly higher scores than the Lexus models. I don't recall if their comments indicated the reasons for their preferences though. Personally I would choose the Lexus in either form for a variety of reasons.