Nole

Has anyone purchased a late year used car with low mileage without certification? I am looking into a 2014 ES 350 with less than 13K miles and factory warranty which began in Apr 2014. The dealer has not certified this.
My question is: Can a lack of certification in the presence of factory warranty pose issues that you are aware of? This is a fleet vehicle. In other words, does the 161 point check and the certification and warranty ensure there were no crashes in the past? Has anyone had a negative experience from purchasing a non CPO 2013 or 2014 ES 350?
There are 3+ years or 35K+ miles left on the balance of factory warranty.
Thanks for your time and help.
Nole

zes

Would a car fax not show any crashes? If you get the car inspected by an independent mechanic will they not be able to point out anything suspicious? Also you can check if the oil was changed on the Lexus drivers site. Other than an (only one) oil change I don't think this car would have needed anything.

Nole

Not sure if carfax always shows all the information in the case of a fleet vehicle owned by the dealership.
I would think the dealer would use discretion in what to/what not to post. I don't understand why certain vehicles would not be certified through at least the 161 point check before selling. I understand the warranty aspect on a 2014 it could be pretty meaningless to certify for 3 yr/100K miles.

Poppa

Could you ask the dealer why the vehicle wasn't certified.... and maybe since the car is so new and low mileage you might ask them to certify it just for your peace of mind... I don't think it would hurt to ask.

Poppa

zes

If you are getting a fantastic deal you could negotiate the 161 pt check with the dealer. You could pay for it if you end up buying the car.

lesz

I could be mistaken, but I thought I recalled having read that fleet vehicles/loaner cars are not eligible to be made into CPO vehicles.

In any case, I think that having the car inspected by your own independent mechanic is good advice, and I wouldn't be concerned about not having the 161 point inspection. That 161 point inspection is not nearly as thorough as we would be led to believe from seeing Lexus' (and other manufacturers') marketing.

With as much of the factory warranty that is still left, you should have plenty of time to see if there are going to be any major issues with the vehicle, and, if, during the warranty period, the car looks like it is going to have continuous issues, you would have enough time to get rid of it before the warranty expires.

I will point out, though, that there are many who would not consider buying a fleet vehicle/loaner because that vehicle has been driven by a large number of people, and the odds are that, at least, some of them are going to have driven it in a less than gentle manner.

rrr757

My experience is that I just bought a used 2013 es 300h with 35K. Got a great deal, wasnt from a lexus dealership. But interior and exterior were better than the 2013 CPO vehicles I saw and the price was awesome. Also because its not CPO, I can get an extended Lexus warranty from Jerry J. for the amount I saved and then some for a 6/125k. I normally dont do extended warranties but because I took a chance on high miles and drive 20K a year might do it this time. I was actually surprised at some of the conditions of the CPO vehicles this go around -was not impressed. Also if you dont get CPO you can get an extended warranty from Lexus before 50K if you feel like the vehicle might have issues. Good luck!!!

12jimmyjam

Carfax definitely doesn't show everything. I've owned a few cars that had obvious accidents and they never showed up. I've also heard about a dealership in the DC area that seeks totalled cars with clean carfaxes (some potential buyers used autocheck? I think) and sold them knowing they were totalled because it was communicated when the dealer bought the car.

lesz

That is definitely true. A Carfax report shows some of what might have happened or been done to a car, but what is does show is typically only a fraction of the car's history. If a service department, mechanic, or body shop doesn't report what it did and add it to the data base, it isn't going to show on the report.

When I was looking for a used ES 5 or 6 years ago, the Carfax report for that vehicle showed no collision damage, but I could easily spot body work that had been done to all of the panels on one side of the car and at least one panel on the other side. Also, when I checked the Carfax report for a Toyota Tacoma pickup that I traded in, it also showed no collision history. Yet, during the time that I owned it, the vehicle was rear-ended by a semi, and the body shop's bill to put it back together was over $10,000.

PirelliRC

I bought a 2013 CPO with 13k miles. I personally would never buy a vehicle that is not certified. There must be a reason why they do not want to stamp it as a "Lexus CPO", find out why.

swfla

iTrader: (1)

Lexus CPO can have accidents. I bought an ES 350 that was CPO and had previous damage. Take some time to do a thread search about CPO and look on Lexus website about the "rules" for CPO. I think you will be surprised that CPO is not all many think it to be. Not only did my car have previous damage, it had cheap brand new tires installed by the dealer, a filthy air filter and a filthy engine compartment hiding under the plastic covers. None of these items violated CPO rules.
Now to address the vehicle you're looking at. I think that with the balance of the factory warranty, you're good to go. CPO is only 3 years and it's running at the same time as the factory warranty. A Lexus Platinum warranty will start AFTER the factory warranty runs out and give you the longest coverage. Also, if you sell/total/trade the vehicle while under Platinum coverage, you can get a refund of the unused balance or ask the buyer to pay what your refund amount is as it's transferrable. CPO isn't.
Hope I helped, good luck.

Nole

Thanks for all the responses. I have driven a number of CPO 2014 ES 350's and I can attest that some drive noticeably worse than others for similar low mileage (less than 20K). In response to SWFLA, I think that speaks directly to your point that dealers install cheap equipment under the hood which gets the difference in ride quality between otherwise similar vehicles. So I checked out the car which was not certified and it had scratches all over one side of the car. Clearly it was not certified due to this.
All non certified recent year low mileage cars I have looked at recently have all had some sort of cosmetic issues or issues with bad brakes. So the certification does bring some benefit in that the cosmetic issues and brakes are fairly moot issues. However, as I said earlier, i have seen CPO vehicles with low mileage with horrible, relatively speaking, ride quality for a newer Lexus.
In response to Lensz, I have seen a number of fleet cars which are Lexus certified and in good shape inside out with good ride quality. However, i do agree that those loaners have probably been driven hard at times. Unfortunately dealers do not seem to want to negotiate on price based on this fact.

12jimmyjam

Not to hijack the thread, but another reason I dislike Carfax is that they seem to cater to dealers now. A few cars I looked at recently had higher pricing because Carfax felt that the recorded maintenance added value, even when incomplete or with gaps. Also, if something like an auction sale comes up, there's literally a cartoon character on the report saying "Don't worry! Millions of cars are sold at auction every year and are ok!". Definitely dealer oriented for sales now.

Nole

I agree. The CARFAX is usually not very helpful as many vehicles I looked over in person were clearly not in good shape. This is something CARFAX cannot cover. Moreover, for fleet vehicles which undergo maintenance at the dealer itself at the discretion of dealer, will the dealer report a negative incident to CARFAX? Probably not.